Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-03-2016, 06:54   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,061
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike d. View Post
Gel coat Gel Coat Gel coat. Ours is 37 yrs old and all we do is wax in the spring. I have compounded the top sides, because the p/o never did squat, to the boat. I have to do it again, after 6 yrs. Gel coat lasts and lasts. Paint, or what ever will need work after 7-10 yrs., and then repainting. If you don't plan on keeping the boat for more than 5 yrs., then paint it, but if your in it for the long haul, gel coat it.
I don't even have to ask: Your hull is white. A dark color gelcoat would not last.
__________________

__________________
SailFastTri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-03-2016, 08:42   #32
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco and Australia
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 1,978
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by crs45500 View Post
Am ordering a new 40' cruiser. Builder is offering the standard gelcoat or awl grip paint. Trying to make best decision for a down east style boat subject to Florida sun. Recommendations?
Gelcoat. More durable and easy to repair if you get any gouges or scratches.

Polishing to remove oxidation at haulout is just part of your preventative maintenance plan.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-03-2016, 14:58   #33
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

I would go for the standard Awlgrip in a flash.

After hurricane Ivan, a lot of boats were repainted in Trinidad. Some took gelcoat, others Awlgrip. They all looked beautiful. A year later we met them again, the Awlgrip boats looked like new and the gelcoat biats all said they really should polish the boat to get her to look good again, but didn't so they looked dull.

If your hobby is polshing then go for gelcoat. I rather roll a fresh coat of white Awlgrip on every 10-15 years.
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2016, 17:22   #34
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,042
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Are the two kinds of gelcoat similar, or different, when it comes to durability?


"Real" gelcoat is applied inside the female mold when the boat is laid up, and the frp applied on top of it. The "new" gelcoats are applied like a paint, on top of an existing hull. I'd expect there is a difference in the chemistry and performance of the two. No?
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2016, 09:36   #35
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anacortes
Boat: previous - Whitby 42 new - Goldenwave 44
Posts: 1,735
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

FWIW, I am not a real expert, but I believe that the chemistry of gelcoat applied to a female mold is the same basically as that sprayed on to an external surface. There is are some additives to allow the gel coat to cure a bit differently for the two different processes, but the end results are the same. And the female mold has a release sprayed on to it before the gel coat is sprayed in to allow the mold to be removed.

The advantage of spraying in to a mold is that it it comes out as smooth as the underlying mold surface is. It usually needs no further polishing as it can be as smooth as a baby's behind. Expert sprayers who thin the gelcoat just right and put it on just right can get close to a very good surface but it usually needs some significant polishing, which is an art itself. One of the key parts of gelcoat spraying is getting the thickness right.
__________________
exMaggieDrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-05-2017, 15:07   #36
Registered User
 
Wind River's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Hudson Force 50 Center Cockpit
Posts: 221
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Instead of a new post, I thought I would ask my question on this as I think it adds to the content.

I am ready to repaint or gelcoat my Force 50. The hull of this fiberglass boat has lines cast into the sides to make it look like a planked wood hull. If I tried to spray gelcoat on this, wouldn't those lines start to fill up, given the thickness of gelcoat? Trying to sand them back to the original depth seems like it would be a lot of extra work with questionable results.

The boat has been painted before but I am sanding down to what seems to be gelcoat but it is not very thick. I don't know if maybe it is actually a primer. I have sanded right through to fiberglass in some areas.

I planned on a Awlgrip finish and have already bought the materials, but if gelcoat is a better option I will consider it. Would one or the other be considerably more work in the application process?

Any thoughts?
__________________
Wind River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-05-2017, 15:32   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,877
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind River View Post
Instead of a new post, I thought I would ask my question on this as I think it adds to the content.

I am ready to repaint or gelcoat my Force 50. The hull of this fiberglass boat has lines cast into the sides to make it look like a planked wood hull. If I tried to spray gelcoat on this, wouldn't those lines start to fill up, given the thickness of gelcoat? Trying to sand them back to the original depth seems like it would be a lot of extra work with questionable results.

The boat has been painted before but I am sanding down to what seems to be gelcoat but it is not very thick. I don't know if maybe it is actually a primer. I have sanded right through to fiberglass in some areas.

I planned on a Awlgrip finish and have already bought the materials, but if gelcoat is a better option I will consider it. Would one or the other be considerably more work in the application process?

Any thoughts?
How deep are the recesses? Gelcoat is only supposed to be slightly thicker than a playing card, so unless they are really shallow or you go really heavy, they shouldn't get filled in.

There typically isn't primer between the original gelcoat and the fiberglass. They typically spray the gelcoat in the mold and then fiberglass over it before it fully cures. This creates a molecular level bond rather than mechanical.

That said, I'm in the paint is the better option camp.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-05-2017, 16:50   #38
Registered User
 
Wind River's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Hudson Force 50 Center Cockpit
Posts: 221
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
How deep are the recesses? Gelcoat is only supposed to be slightly thicker than a playing card, so unless they are really shallow or you go really heavy, they shouldn't get filled in.

There typically isn't primer between the original gelcoat and the fiberglass. They typically spray the gelcoat in the mold and then fiberglass over it before it fully cures. This creates a molecular level bond rather than mechanical.

That said, I'm in the paint is the better option camp.

The recesses are about an 1/8", maybe slightly more.

I was under the impression that gelcoat had to be sprayed in multiple coats to about and 1/8" thick or so to allow for fairing. Even at that thickness I don't think they would fill in, but they will likely require a sanding with something of the same profile to get them even.

Sanding and polishing 700 feet of those little grooves does not sound appealing to me, but if it is a better end result I will consider it. I have to sand the paint out of them anyway unless I opt to media bast the entire hull.
__________________
Wind River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2017, 05:51   #39
Registered User
 
malbert73's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Tartan 40
Posts: 1,032
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Easy choice- do awlgrip.


Thread drift- I just read an article about vinyl boat wraps. Anyone do this instead? Supposed to be cheaper and possibly more abrasion resistant than awlgrip


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
malbert73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2017, 08:57   #40
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anacortes
Boat: previous - Whitby 42 new - Goldenwave 44
Posts: 1,735
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Spraying gelcoat is an art of the highest degree, even over a mold where the gelcoat would/should come out smooth. You can't get gelcoat to be smooth spraying it on to a surface. I am not a pro but have some limited classroom work at a pro school and it was very hard to get it even. And then you have to really understand how to put the wax (or whatever) in it so it will air cure, i.e. it will not cure properly in air and has to have a wax coating that will have to be removed before sanding.

I hired a pro to do a 3x3 foot section on the cabin top of my previous boat. He probably had over 40 hours of labor in it. It required a LOT of sanding to get smooth going from medium to very, very fine wet/dry paper. It takes a fine touch to not sand through the gelcoat (as you found out). Then you have to start over.

If you try to paint over any thing rough the paint will show the rough right through so you will have to fair any areas with raw fiberglass underneath. You are looking at a major job that requires a lot of skill from what I have seen.

May be some others will have other easier ideas. I wouldn't do the gelcoat myself nor the Awlgrip either. Awlgrip has a limited life (says 10 years) before needing to be redone although I suspect regularly waxing would help. Gelcoat will last a long time and be much more durable - but it won't be easy or cheap. I wish you luck with this project.
__________________
exMaggieDrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2017, 11:46   #41
Registered User
 
Wind River's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Hudson Force 50 Center Cockpit
Posts: 221
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum View Post
Spraying gelcoat is an art of the highest degree, even over a mold where the gelcoat would/should come out smooth. You can't get gelcoat to be smooth spraying it on to a surface. I am not a pro but have some limited classroom work at a pro school and it was very hard to get it even. And then you have to really understand how to put the wax (or whatever) in it so it will air cure, i.e. it will not cure properly in air and has to have a wax coating that will have to be removed before sanding.

I hired a pro to do a 3x3 foot section on the cabin top of my previous boat. He probably had over 40 hours of labor in it. It required a LOT of sanding to get smooth going from medium to very, very fine wet/dry paper. It takes a fine touch to not sand through the gelcoat (as you found out). Then you have to start over.

If you try to paint over any thing rough the paint will show the rough right through so you will have to fair any areas with raw fiberglass underneath. You are looking at a major job that requires a lot of skill from what I have seen.

May be some others will have other easier ideas. I wouldn't do the gelcoat myself nor the Awlgrip either. Awlgrip has a limited life (says 10 years) before needing to be redone although I suspect regularly waxing would help. Gelcoat will last a long time and be much more durable - but it won't be easy or cheap. I wish you luck with this project.
Thank you for the input.

I was told that spraying on gelcoat to the thickness need for fairing sometimes comes out like a frosted cake and requires a lot of sanding to make it look good.

I have some experience with automotive painting so I think am going to give it a try unless someone here talks me into trying the gelcoat route.
Whats the worse thing that could happen with Awlgrip? I have to sand out some runs and spray another coat (I know a run with Awlgrip cannot just be sanded out and polished as with Awlcraft). I think by the time I have all the coats of primer sprayed on and the first two coats of Awlgrip, I should have the process and technique under control to have an acceptable finish on the final coat. If anyone has any tips on spraying Awlgrip, I am all ears. I would be interested in hearing the opinions of Awlgrip over Awlcraft.

As of now, the plan is two coats of 545 primer and a coat of Awgrip high build primer, sand it all smooth and apply 3 coats of Awlgrip.

I was screwed over by a "professional painter" once already on this job so I am trucking the boat to my yard where I will have all the time I need and full control of the costs and quality of work. Believe it or not, it will cost less to buy boat stands, build an enclosure, buy the paint, primer, equipment and materials and have the boat trucked 100 miles each way, than what I was quoted to paint the boat after I did all the prep work. Of course my time is worth something too, but with the boat in my yard not costing anything, I will be doing every project I can get done while its here where I have all my tools and equipment.

This all started with pulling the masts to paint them......
__________________
Wind River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2017, 11:59   #42
Registered User
 
Wind River's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Hudson Force 50 Center Cockpit
Posts: 221
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by captjcook View Post

If you leave a wet cushion, towel, rag, leaves...leave a fender hanging against the hull, trapping water...whatever, on Awlgrip...it will blister and bubble wrecking finish.
I have never heard of this. Has anyone here experienced this?

So what happens to the people that do their decks in Awlgrip and have a little corner somewhere that holds a little water and doesn't dry out. Does this ruin their paint? I find this hard to believe but very concerning if it is true.
__________________
Wind River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2017, 13:44   #43
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anacortes
Boat: previous - Whitby 42 new - Goldenwave 44
Posts: 1,735
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind River View Post
Thank you for the input.

I was told that spraying on gelcoat to the thickness need for fairing sometimes comes out like a frosted cake and requires a lot of sanding to make it look good.

I have some experience with automotive painting so I think am going to give it a try unless someone here talks me into trying the gelcoat route.
Whats the worse thing that could happen with Awlgrip? I have to sand out some runs and spray another coat (I know a run with Awlgrip cannot just be sanded out and polished as with Awlcraft). I think by the time I have all the coats of primer sprayed on and the first two coats of Awlgrip, I should have the process and technique under control to have an acceptable finish on the final coat. If anyone has any tips on spraying Awlgrip, I am all ears. I would be interested in hearing the opinions of Awlgrip over Awlcraft.

As of now, the plan is two coats of 545 primer and a coat of Awgrip high build primer, sand it all smooth and apply 3 coats of Awlgrip.

I was screwed over by a "professional painter" once already on this job so I am trucking the boat to my yard where I will have all the time I need and full control of the costs and quality of work. Believe it or not, it will cost less to buy boat stands, build an enclosure, buy the paint, primer, equipment and materials and have the boat trucked 100 miles each way, than what I was quoted to paint the boat after I did all the prep work. Of course my time is worth something too, but with the boat in my yard not costing anything, I will be doing every project I can get done while its here where I have all my tools and equipment.

This all started with pulling the masts to paint them......
Sounds like a plan. Having auto paint experience puts you a leg up for sure. Beware the Ides of Spring though. My old paint shop had to repaint more than one boat in pollen season despite being inside. (I did other work, not painting, so only my observations.) I'm sure you already know that lighter colors are a heck of a lot easier than dark. Have fun.
__________________
exMaggieDrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2017, 15:03   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Alamosa, Colorado
Boat: S2.....7.9/26'
Posts: 379
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

My brief excursion into awlgrip yielded skyhigh prices. Since I plan to sell in three years, costs is a factor. Surely there is a quality covering at a much lower price? Medium blue is my color... on a '78 7.9 S2.
__________________
softdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2017, 15:48   #45
Registered User
 
Wind River's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Diego
Boat: Hudson Force 50 Center Cockpit
Posts: 221
Re: Awlgrip Vs Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by softdown View Post
My brief excursion into awlgrip yielded skyhigh prices. Since I plan to sell in three years, costs is a factor. Surely there is a quality covering at a much lower price? Medium blue is my color... on a '78 7.9 S2.
I met another Force 50 owner that had his boat painted with a single part paint in Mexico because it was cheaper. I don't know the brand or type so this really isn't much help. His paint began to chalk and fail after about 18 months. 2 years later it didn't look any better than then before it was painted. He said he wishes he spent the money on good paint.... Awlgrip.

My boat is 50 feet and I have removed every item bolted to the hull including rub rails, chain plates and the threaded on rings around 18 port holes. I don't want to take the chance that the paint will fail and I will have to redo this prematurely.
__________________

__________________
Wind River is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gelcoat

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Non-Skid: SoftSand, Awlgrip with Griptex, & Griptex in Gelcoat BigSmile Construction, Maintenance & Refit 8 18-06-2016 00:50
Deck refinish, 2 part paint, awlgrip, or gelcoat? Macturn Construction, Maintenance & Refit 16 07-12-2015 03:50
Awlgrip or Gelcoat? candycat Multihull Sailboats 25 20-06-2014 08:15
Awlgrip Over Cracked and Crazed Gelcoat eroot Construction, Maintenance & Refit 17 18-01-2012 14:35
awlgrip irwinsailor Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 19-02-2004 19:17



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.