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Old 07-03-2012, 19:25   #61
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

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Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
...With this said, I do carry serveral Flare guns aboard, a world war One 12 inch barrel 10 gauge, and a couple of 12 gauge flare guns one of which shoots 3 1/2 in 12 gauge shells, Now these are legal EVERYWHERE ! ...
Not so. Bermuda, info taken from noonsite:

All firearms and ammunition must be declared on arrival to the customs officer, who will either impound them until departure or seal them on board. Firearms include spear guns, Verey pistols and flare guns.

Edit: Bonaire too!
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Old 07-03-2012, 19:28   #62
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

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At 5-20 feet maybe. Just glad the "drunks" didn't have guns and feel it was time to start a gun fight.
Obviously not a hunter. I've whacked more than one turkey at 54 yards with #4 shot and deer at over 100 yards with slugs. 00 Buck is devistating at 50 or 60 yards.

I have no intention of packing - too much hassle and worry visiting places we want to see. We'll just stay away from some of them. I'd rather shoot birds.

BTW - poodles are great hunters.
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Old 07-03-2012, 19:42   #63
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

I have legal flares for all my flare guns and Ive been to the Bahamas so many times I hate to tell ya ! never had a agent ask me about flare guns ! just FIREARMS so maybe Im doing something wrong ?? IM not talking about plastic flare guns !! I also have some 20 30 yr old Hand held shooting star flares !! are they un- lawful also ?? just wondering
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Old 07-03-2012, 19:46   #64
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

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I have legal flares for all my flare guns and Ive been to the Bahamas so many times I hate to tell ya ! never had a agent ask me about flare guns ! just FIREARMS so maybe Im doing something wrong ?? IM not talking about plastic flare guns !! I also have some 20 30 yr old Hand held shooting star flares !! are they un- lawful also ?? just wondering
Get your eyes checked ... I think I wrote Bermuda, not Bahamas.

We do declare our flare guns every time in every country (one is metal, not orange). Most of the time the officials laugh. Once we had to show them but were able to keep 'em
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Old 07-03-2012, 19:50   #65
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

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Get your eyes checked ... I think I wrote Bermuda, not Bahamas.
I've confused those archipelagos so many times I finally had to move to the Left Coast.
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Old 07-03-2012, 19:51   #66
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

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I have legal flares for all my flare guns and Ive been to the Bahamas so many times I hate to tell ya ! never had a agent ask me about flare guns ! just FIREARMS so maybe Im doing something wrong ?? IM not talking about plastic flare guns !! I also have some 20 30 yr old Hand held shooting star flares !! are they un- lawful also ?? just wondering
I have the high impact plastic also, declared it when boarded in Mexico and the officers said "No está interesado en que el arma de". Got to keep it.

Not interested in that gun.
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Old 07-03-2012, 20:02   #67
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

At least two occasions come to mind where we were very wrong about another vessel's intentions.

1) Pacific coast of Central America - big fishing boat passed bow to bow then big turn to come up close astern, close enough that they dropped some fresh fish off their bow into my cockpit and waved.

2) approaching a small Carribean Is early hours before dawn - noticed a cigarette type boat shadowing us with no lights, followed every turn I made. That was the local police checking us out.

The earlier incident I mentioned where they wanted water was approaching Sri Lanka (and they were wearing hoods - to keep the sun off).

And another, just after passing through the Straits of Hormuz a fisherman checked us out - they don't see many sailboats around there.

To be honest I think if the people this guy shot at off Brazil were baddies he'd be dead and we we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Old 07-03-2012, 20:21   #68
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Smile Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

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Originally Posted by dana-tenacity View Post
At least two occasions come to mind where we were very wrong about another vessel's intentions.

1) Pacific coast of Central America - big fishing boat passed bow to bow then big turn to come up close astern, close enough that they dropped some fresh fish off their bow into my cockpit and waved.

2) approaching a small Carribean Is early hours before dawn - noticed a cigarette type boat shadowing us with no lights, followed every turn I made. That was the local police checking us out.

The earlier incident I mentioned where they wanted water was approaching Sri Lanka (and they were wearing hoods - to keep the sun off).

And another, just after passing through the Straits of Hormuz a fisherman checked us out - they don't see many sailboats around there.

To be honest I think if the people this guy shot at off Brazil were baddies he'd be dead and we we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Matt wrote on his blog...he fired two shot into the air. He wasn't shooting at them. He was fireing warning shots.
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Old 07-03-2012, 20:33   #69
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

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Matt wrote on his blog...he fired two shot into the air. He wasn't shooting at them. He was fireing warning shots.
The receiving end, at night, does not know whether it is being shot at, or the shot is going over head.... There is a flash, then a boom.
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Old 07-03-2012, 21:24   #70
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

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Whats a threatening vessel?

I have been several hundred miles off the coast and have had vessels that were not as pretty as mine and unlit come close check me out and do a lap around me.
They made no radio contact.
Were they bad men? How would I know, even killers smile.

Gave them a wave, noted it in my log book and continued on my way.
Not being brought up in a gun culture I certainly didn't wish for one at the time.
When I read your post I knew at once you were not an American. Our first "knee jerk" reaction is to grab our guns. I think you make a great point. In America we are totally raised in a "gun culture". You can see that in our yearly "death by gun" statistics in which we are number ONE in gun deaths year after year. In fact, nobody even comes close. In America what would be a fist fight in another culture ends up a shooting match here...and I really don't know why.

Why is it that American's are the most afraid people on the planet? You'd have to travel abroad a lot to know what I mean. I'm really not sure but I have a feeling that our media does a pretty good job of keeping us all scared out of our wits over just about everything. My wife came into the kitchen tonight totally freaked out about the solar flare that is going to hit us in the next couple of days....geez...I told her they happen all the time and are quite cyclic and not to be worried. Has anyone every watched the US News and made a list of the stories? It's one thing after another to be afraid of...Killings, robberies, natural disasters, car crashes, is your tuna safe? Firestone tires! Are their seat belts on your child's school bus? On and on.... Heck, some days it feels like "they" don't want you to even go out of your house!
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Old 07-03-2012, 21:24   #71
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

Not really a gun nut but in my 'formative years' amongst other water related jobs, I spent a season working on a cash buyer boat in the PNW. We always had around $10k in cash on board in remote waters buying salmon from gillnetters, trollers and the occasional seiner. A couple of times we were approached after midnight when we were at anchor by unlit vessels travelling at very low speed, circling around us as we watched out the wheelhouse window.
Should we have responded with a warning shot? Should we have even had a firearm aboard? My skipper was pretty definite about what his response should be and felt that he was entitled to defend himself, his vessel and his assets.
Ten K was alot of money back in the 60's and I'm sure was pretty tempting to some who felt it was easy pickin's. This was long before it became PC and fashionable to have the restrictive gun laws that Canada now has.
I've re-lived those experiences many times in my mind over the years and still don't know whether or not the call the skipper made was one I would have made, personally.
Having spent many years delivering boats back and forth to Mexico, I was always careful not to have a firearm aboard as their gun laws are some of the most stringently enforced on the planet.
My guess is if you have a firearm aboard and you feel you are threatened, you will probably use it. If you choose not to be armed then you live with what is delivered to you.
Tough call to which there is no right answer in my mind... Capt Phil
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Old 07-03-2012, 21:35   #72
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

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But he wasn't using a Rocna
Yes, but I was using a Rocna, still do, always will - hmmm, although I was very impressed with the Ultra anchor I tested at the Miami Boat Show (only comes in stainless steel though) and if you read my blog as well as Noonsites posting of our event, we found ourselves in a similar position and resorted to the use of our flaregun ... there was a SUDDEN awareness on my part after I had pulled the trigger, that things could get nasty .... fortunately the guys took off as they watched me load the next round.

I am not sure how I would handle the situation next time around, but it does make one pretty desperate!
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Old 07-03-2012, 22:24   #73
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Why is it that having a gun onboard instantly makes someone's judgement suspect to some folks? Somehow I always feel like these are the same people who tell you that you shouldn't change your own oil because only a professional can do it correctly. We don't carry guns onboard due to customs problems, but I think that it should be a choice of the mariner and there should be international laws that allow it. The common gun control advocate argument is that you can always call for help, but at sea, there is no one to help. The guy with the shotgun may have made a mistake, but it was his judgment call to make. He didn't hurt anyone else and he made it out safely. Without really being there, none of us can make a good judgement about his actions, but we do know that no one was hurt in this outcome.
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Old 07-03-2012, 22:34   #74
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Re: Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

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The guy with the shotgun may have made a mistake, but it was his judgment call to make. He didn't hurt anyone else and he made it out safely.
You are kidding right?
He would have scared a few years off of the guys in the other vessel for one, what if one of them had a heart attack and died?

Does your argument work for the drinkdriver?
He is being an idiot as well, but he didnt hurt anyone else and made it out OK, until he kills someone.

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Without really being there, none of us can make a good judgement about his actions, but we do know that no one was hurt in this outcome.
More good luck than good judgement.
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Old 07-03-2012, 22:55   #75
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No Cat Man Do. I am not kidding. Shooting a 12 gauge into the air doesn't put anyone at risk. Driving drunk does. The two are not even remotely related or comparable. We know that no one suffered physical harm in the outcome that happened. We have no idea what would have happened otherwise. Therefore, we have no sure idea that what Matt did was productive, maybe there was no threat, but in this case no one was physically harmed. Both boats were likely frightened, so it's fair play.

I have no desire to offend anyone. I also don't expect to convince anyone without an open mind of anything. Can't we just agree to disagree?
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