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Old 02-04-2012, 16:28   #46
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Re: Safety on Board

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Originally Posted by ulpilot45 View Post
Look folks I wasn't trying to start sh** . I just wanted to know alternatives to protecting ourselves and ideas n things other use. I'm not for pulling a gun believe me though if I feel threatned enough I will shoot to kill. I wil happily deal with consequences because I'm still alive they wouldn't be. BUT I don't want a gun and I don't own a gun.
So allow me to ask it this way if I was on land n wanted to know about an areabeing safe I would go to local police or paper to see what's going on in that area. At sea who do I ask where do I check ??
Oh Boy! A chance to slide into another contentious subject!

In our experience, the best way to get this sort of info is to check into local ham or marine SSB cruiser nets. There one can actually talk to folks in most popular cruising destinations and get real time feedback on conditions.

But, like most of the folks who are actually out cruising in exotic locations, we have never had a situation where a means of self defense was needed, certainly not one of lethal effect.

Oh yes, Australia and New Zealand both have rules against flare guns. Don't think they are often enforced, but they are there. Would be a shame to rule out these superb cruising destinations because of that.

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Old 03-04-2012, 06:25   #47
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Re: Safety on Board

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Local police(FL) say wasp spray is better than the other spray weapons.
Old wives tale. My wife once sprayed me accidentally with wasp spray. It wasn't pleasant, but it didn't even come CLOSE to incapacitating me. Had I been an attacker, and had that spray been her attempt at self-defense, she would have been in deep trouble.

Personally, I go for ammonia. That, too, I have experienced first hand and let me tell you, I don't EVER want to experience it again! To the authorities it is just a cleanser. In a good squirt bottle, though...
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:47   #48
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Re: Safety on Board

If you do use some type of spray, make sure it sprays in a stream instead of a mist. A mist can easily disable you right along with your assailant, especially in close quarters, but even outdoors in the wrong breeze, or with movement.

I really can't imagine very many scenarios where anything more than hand-to-hand would be effective. Theives don't need to be shot at, if somebody stole your car, you wouldn't chase them down the street shooting at them... And attackers are like sharks, they do it when you're not looking, they prey on the weak and still hit them at their most vulnurable moment. Which means, 99% of the time, it'll happen too quickly for you to reach for any type of weapon. Even a boat boarding in the middle of the night, unless you have you're weapon (of any sort) right there at hand, they will probably have the drop on you. If they are armed, they will have their weapons already out and fixed on you before you even know they're there. If you're reliant on a weapon, what will you do when you can't get to it?

Proper self defense is the most useful weapon there is against personal and close quarters attacks. Krav Maga is designed for people of all physical fitness levels, if you're fit enough to sail a boat, you can learn how to disarm an attacker and render them powerless in most situations.

Deterrents are the best prevention. If you're not carrying your weapon in plain view, it will not stop someone from attacking you. For a boat, i think a really good deterrent is a simple motion activated spotlight. They won't sneak away with your outboard, or sneak into the cabin in the middle of the night if they're aware the whole anchorage can suddenly see them. Also locks on everything to make whatever they're doing take longer and cause a ruckus.

Another common deterrent is to simply not make yourself a target. Don't show you're money in public, don't wear jewelry.. if you have a really nice boat, or dingy, etc.. it better be secured well.

PS: there's a youtube video of a drunk guy accidently shooting himself in the face at point blank with a flare gun. They don't work...
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:47   #49
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Angry Re: Safety on Board

I carry two spear guns and when I get antsy about borders keep one near my bunk. If boarded I'll nail them with spears and toss the bodies overboard.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:10   #50
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Re: Safety on Board

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I carry two spear guns and when I get antsy about borders keep one near my bunk. If boarded I'll nail them with spears and toss the bodies overboard.
Sure you will
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:55   #51
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Re: Safety on Board

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Sure you will
+1 on that - Unless you have been out there in and around the countries with active problems, all this "huffing and puffing" and IDF combat whatever, is just so much fun to talk about - but you are not even remotely likely to be able to do much in real life and in "real time."

Currently in the Caribbean there are two types of attackers. First and most deadly is the "armed" attackers who shoot at your boat (and you) before they even get close to you. And they are moving in very fast moving pangas. The most practical defense against these are simply stay away from these areas.

The Caribbean Security Net Welcome to the Caribbean Safety and Security Net
and its morning SSB HF net on 8104.0 at 1215 UTC is available to get the "live and latest" information.

Local anchorage/country VHF nets will also alert you to the local "live and latest" information.

Then you have Noonsite and its Noonsite: Piracy

Since the situation changes over time and in cycles it is not really valuable to make blanket pronouncements about any specific country/place other than to make yourself aware that special attention needs to be placed on finding out what is currently the situation there.

The second and most prevalent type of problem almost everywhere is the "sneak thief" who swims, paddles, rows out to your boat. Most of the time he avoids any boats that show indications that there are people onboard and instead goes to boats where the cruisers have gone ashore, etc.

Here your best security measures are to "lock it or lose it" (CSS motto). and devise methods of preventing entry into your boat while you are gone. Padlocks and door hasps commonly found on most every boat do nothing as a simple screwdriver type tool and pop them off the boat. But there are plenty of simple and effective ways to secure your boat if you apply some forethought and common sense to the subject.

A sub-category of the sneak thief is when he boards your boat when you are still onboard. This is one of the most commonly reported attacks that might result in injuries.

Having a secure and strong method of "locking yourself" in and preventing the thief from gaining access to the inside of the boat is not difficult. But it may take some alterations to your boat's hatch/companionway/doors system. The thief rarely has any weapons beyond maybe a machete or pry bar. An overabundance of bright deck lights and a VHF down below really helps in discouraging the thief from remaining onboard.

If the thief cannot get to you, you cannot be assaulted. A historically successful defense of your "castle" has been police grade pepper spray. Prior to heading for the Caribbean and in anticipation of having to defend my "castle" I purchased a case of FOX Labs Intl "FIVE point THREE" 5.3 million SHU canisters. They are palm size and you insert your fore finger into the cap, point your finger at the assailant and depress. A single stream of pepper spray projects up to 10 feet from the can.

I carried these things around for 10 years and never, ever even got close to having to use one. They are still in my nav station desk. Why? I just stayed away from any place where it was currently reported on the nets and websites to have any problems. My personal philosophy is that there are too many "nice" places to go that I could not possibly get to them all in a lifetime - so why go to the "bad" places. Locking the boat up securely when off the boat takes care of the rest.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:23   #52
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Re: Safety on Board

One advantage to wasp spray is it sprays a stream, not a mist, about 15 feet and it's a heavy stream of thick liquid. It certainly would be incapacitating if gotten into the eyes to most people. Pepper spray will incapacitate too. However, some people arent effected much by pepper spray for some reason. Not sure if the same for Wasp Spray. Wasp Spray may cause permanent neurological damage. It's a neurological agent and has chemicals added to make it enter the system quick. I'd say either one would be a good choice for the "what if.." scenario. Much easier than dealing with guns. Personally I dont want to get close enough to try to swing a baseball bat or machete in confined quarters! Build a set of stainless bars/grille for your companionway and you can squirt right through it!
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:33   #53
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I'm not saying guns are the answer, but last week someone tried to steal a sailboat right out of the marina I live in. A couple of months ago, friends were anchored out when their dinghy and motor were stolen.
So are you implying a gun would have made this better? What would have happened, the owner comes on deck and points a shotgun at the thief? What if he said, "**** it" - oh yea I live in Ireland now and we aren't uptight, we still cuss - what would happen then, would the thief be shot? What if he was some idiot 16 year old? Still?

I'm not anti-gun but this situation represents exactly when guns shouldn't be used, vigilantism.

If you life is in danger is a different issue, and if you are in another country and have hidden your guns and kill someone you had better have good weather cause you will need to roll the bodies over the side under the lifeline and pull up anchor and make a dash with a good story for the next port as to why you don't have your exit papers...

...just sayin...
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Old 03-04-2012, 14:22   #54
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Re: Safety on Board

Admittedly this is not necessary now whilst my boat is in Greece. But I am stocking up in advance for near future adventures.

Better to be prepared than sorry
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Old 03-04-2012, 22:26   #55
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Trip wire ??maybe electrical fence for remote known or just plain not so cozy feeling areas. Does any body use that?? I like the motion trip light also.
After reading ideas n sorting out what would n would not work for us I was thinking paint thinner or strpping stuff in stream spray bottles. [That could serve as double duty if it gets on wood well it probally needed finished. Lol]
Louisville slugger, brings back memories, when I got my first apt a friend gave me an aluminum one filled with lead.. [couple people learned I could wake up swinging. They learned very quick to announce them selves or take that chance!! Sorry.] Maybe I should do that also.
Thank you everyone for the ideas and for starting my thought process in a non firearm direction. All that fire power omg that's so not me..js
Don't get me wrong push came to shove . But my devious mind can do this now. Positive thoughts and safe travels n sleep.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:49   #56
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Some guys were boarded on a cat in Papua New Guinea and the feral locals kept coming until a spear gun was shown and they then fled real quick as they were from the jungle they really understood what spears do to people, they do not see many guns around there!
Our experience is good led lighting on all night as the type who creep around stay away because their cover of darkness is no longer.
A great big coconut machete tells anyone you are serious as does a big bat.
A screw in straight tip in a long gaff also keeps your distance to anyone who wants to get a bit too close.
When I worked as a service station cashier we had a baseball bat with "the persuader" written on it once trouble makers saw it and read it there was never any need to use it.

1. Spearguns
2. Base ball bat
3. Big machete
4. Gaff or 2 with straight tips.
5. Loud motion alarms
6. Great lighting

Plenty of no gun options that will never be questioned
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:58   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy
Admittedly this is not necessary now whilst my boat is in Greece. But I am stocking up in advance for near future adventures.

Better to be prepared than sorry
Good man hoppy, junk everything except the AK* , ammo is widespread, and all the other fancy stuff will fail at the first pull of the trigger . Thousands of mujahideen/taliban can't be wrong.

* obligatory turban required

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Old 04-04-2012, 05:05   #58
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Re: Safety on Board

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Originally Posted by dirkdig View Post
1. Spearguns
2. Base ball bat
3. Big machete
4. Gaff or 2 with straight tips.
5. Loud motion alarms
6. Great lighting

Plenty of no gun options that will never be questioned
IMO a good list. I would only add:-

7. a bit of local lingo - including some blunt / swear words

and might also want to put a timer on a deck / cockpit light, that goes off randomly now and again for a few minutes or so. The idea being to create uncertainty about whether someone is up and around / awake. Hell, if moored somewhere with concerns could even wake up at 3am and do a circuit of the deck (with a flashlight) for a few mins. The odds are that the boat will be observed before someone decides to sneek aboard.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:57   #59
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Re: Safety on Board

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Good man hoppy, junk everything except the AK* , ammo is widespread, and all the other fancy stuff will fail at the first pull of the trigger . Thousands of mujahideen/taliban can't be wrong.

* obligatory turban required

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True, but the hail of bullets from the M249 will make sure a boat load of AK's will keep their distance and look for a softer target
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:19   #60
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Re: Safety on Board

i find, as a single and solo female on a 41 ft boat, that the best defense is being offensive, but only when necessary--if you are decent with the natives, you dont have a problem. do not flaunt your wealth--to many folks, having a boat is a show of much wealth. shiny attracts rats.
my boat is not shiny nor is it looking like something of any value is hiding inside. i have many and multiple methods of combating a personal attack, from a cool lil gaff to spray cans of awe. there is no need to risk your ownership of your boat/home and your personal freedom because of having what other countries consider dangerous contraband inside your boat.
remember, many nations use the napoleonic code as basis for their laws. usa does not use this system. is waaay different.
travelling is following the rules of the places you go , not bringing YOUR ideals to these places.
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