Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-12-2006, 11:44   #46
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
Thanks for those words of a smart person there Scott.
I agree with Gord, a smart person will not get into a situation where "getting even" is the outcome.

So "getting even" makes you (from the original perpetrators) different how??

As for the high powered weapons, it's actually the wrong way to go. High power can be less. The onlyu advantage of high power is it's distance and it's damage when it hits a target. 1800ft/sec seems to be a line drawn in a projectiles performance. At velocities below 1800ft/sec, a projectile can actually do more damage. The projectile will tend to remain more intacked, thus it remains more accurate from deflections. Over 1800ft/sec a projectile takes on a whole new set of laws of physics. The heat and energy imparted to the projectile will cause it to disintergrate or deflect by something of much smaller mass. Ever seen something like a 223 deflect of a twig.
Fire high velocity rounds into water and see how far they travel. The faster the round, the shorter the distance. The projectile simply can not "part" the water and it disintergrates. A slow round can travel a long way under water.
BUT! in saying all that, the subject of Piracy simply is not of as greater concern (as Scott has pointed out) that it requires anyone to arm themselves, compared to the issue's that result in carrying arms into another country.
I mean, would you consider arming yourself just to go take a drive down to your corner Dairy?? well you have more chance of being robbed doing that than be attacked by a Pirate.

I really don't know why this debate keeps going on.
__________________

__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006, 17:58   #47
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
I can't believe all you gun happy types are dragging all this $hit up again.

Like Scott say's, have a look at that site and Piracy isn't really that much of an issue.

Maybe less Rambo movies and more sailing is the answer.

Dave
__________________

__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006, 19:47   #48
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Quote:
more sailing is the answer.
I'm thinking there can't be anything wrong in that.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006, 20:41   #49
Registered User

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rota, Spain
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 59
Hi folks,
This thread has gotten far from its purported origins which I believe was Improvised Weaponry. Now I'm not willing to get into the pros and cons of weaponry on a cruising boat, but can't help but think that there is one very dangerous substance present on every cruising boat - Gasoline - usually for the outboard. It is up to those of you motivated enough to come up with a delivery system.
I don't know how I got sucked into this, but I guess that we all would like to be safe and secure. But, what are we doing on cruising sailboats if that is the case?
Regards,
Quijote
__________________
Quijote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006, 21:48   #50
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Spud guns anyone

Pneumatic Potato Cannons - PVC Ballistics

Potato Cannon Workshop [nodice.org]

instructables : The Original Potato Cannon

Don't like the idea of real gun's as such, but the kid in me reckons these could be fun................until they explode in your face.

Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2006, 00:54   #51
Registered User
 
coot's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 367
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm505
Coot, Upon reflection, I'd rather not shoot my boat to see if it will stop a bullet, I will bow to your experience.
Not my experience, but information that was passed to me by somebody else. He didn't actually shoot his boat -- he shot a piece of fiberglass that he cut out of it.

The unsuprising result here is that fiberglass is actually a somewhat strong material -- strong enough to build a boat out of, even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler
Fire high velocity rounds into water and see how far they travel. The faster the round, the shorter the distance. The projectile simply can not "part" the water and it disintergrates. A slow round can travel a long way under water.
I saw an actual demonstration of this on a TV show a little while ago. ("Mythbusters" on the US cable channel "Discovery".) They were investigating the plausibility of a story about a guy who escaped being shot by jumping in a river. The conclusion was that he wouldn't have to dive particularly deep to avoid being hit, and that he would have been even safer if the pursuers had more advanced weapons.
__________________
Mark S.
coot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2006, 01:38   #52
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
I found out what power a high power rifle has with water myself many years ago. It's a good experiment. Get a 20ltr metal container (10gallon?) like metal container that say oil comes in. Fill with water and screw the lid on. Shoot it with a low powered rifle. The container will stay intacked and the round will likely go right through. then fire at another container with the highpowered rifle. when I did this, the thing just exploded. It ripped the metal apart. Simply put, you can't compress water. So the energy of the projectile tires to part the water. But the water at supersonic speeds is like steel and all the energy of the round is imparted into all the water instantly, blowing the can apart. The interesting thing is, the projectile does not come out the other side. It "hydraulics" it's self into disintegration.
Hmmmm, I wonder if instead of having metal armour 6" thick on tanks, you would be better to have a water filled steel jacket around the tank.
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2006, 02:06   #53
Registered User
 
mudnut's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 666
Hey I was only kidding,with all the other silly idears floting about,I didn't think anyone was even gonna bite.When someone says"Inprovised weapons" It seems a bit silly because Improvised wont really match up against the real thing(AK47's seem the tool of trade for serious pirates)and to think that ya spud gun or two german shepards or even a flipping fry-pan is gonna stop the real pirates is only weired thoughts from some very insercure people.More diligent care should be taken while sleeping at anchor(Maybe the best thing would be a couple of $40 motion detectors around the boat)Thats what I really plan to do when I sail up north.I'm hopeing to have a pleasant time sailing,not,a worrying one.Mudnut.
__________________
mudnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2006, 11:12   #54
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
I think "home alone" had the best ideas. Let me see, improvised for yachting...anchor up the mast with a line attached and dangled in a stregic postion for using to clamber aboard or something. Tacks upside down all over the deck. Door handle super heated. Power inverter hooked up so neutral dangles in the water and the phase is hooked to boarding platform. The possibilities are endless and even though they sound stupid in reality, they are probably less stupid thatn the idea of having a firearm aboard.
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2006, 15:29   #55
Registered User
 
Sonosailor's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada in the summer and fall; Caribbean in winter and spring aboard Cat Tales.
Boat: FP Tobago 35 (and a H-21 SE)
Posts: 547
Images: 8
Improvised Weaponry

Okay, Guys. Improvised weaponry:

Having been boarded 3 times in a little trip from Canada to Trinidad and back, I have some opinions regarding improvized weapoonry. First, you should understand that the boardings were opportunistic locals who swam to the boat in the wee hours, climbed aboard, and try to sneak around for loot to put in their resealable bags, and swim away. I chased them away before they could get anything. Also understand that nobody we met had so much bad luck - many cruise for 20 years without an incident at sea or ashore. I take more precautions now, but the main one is to ensure that there is nothing in the cockpit that they could consider "improvised weaponry". There, finally something useful in this thread. Put your knives, winch-handles, tools, poles, fish-gaffers, and other stuff away so it will not be used to gain access, or for their defense as you come out yelling that these naked, greased-up young kids are dumb-asses who are putting their lives on the line for a digital camera that you are not even fond of.

If you want to improvise further, stay further off the beach, listen to reports of where this might be happening and choose other bays, arrange your hatch so that it can be locked in the partially open position so you still get air, get a $20 motion detection system and set it low in the cockpit so that only an intruder can set it off (set on doorbell, not alarm), make arrangements with other cruisers to watch each other's boats, haul up your dinghy and lock it (keeps the green beards off too), then assume you have covered the 99.9 percent of evil and lighten up! I use a 'ti punch for that - and consider it an improvised weapon against evil thoughts.

As for guns, the last thing I want to do is cause harm to the local Police Chief's dumb-but-favourite nephew.
__________________
Sonosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2006, 18:30   #56
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Sonosailor,

In the end it's about the dumb stuff. Kids swimming from shore, petty theft and opportunity seekers. It's not gangs with automatic weapons in high speed boats.

If you take the position that the real threat is the latter how many of the Police Chiefs relatives do you think you'll injure. We won't even consider that you actually kill one of them.

The idea of cleaning out the cockpit goes with the scenario where they break into the boat and shoot you with your own weapon. If you follow the dumb stuff approach you don't leave weapons that can be improvised available nor attractive objects that would be desired but locals.

True piracy is based on simple premises. A very large force of very drunk individuals scare the hell out of you until you just give them what they want. It's as old as piracy of days gone by.

The dumb stuff is local kids just attempting a minor rip off because you made it a little too easy. You can take the position that one threat is more dangerous or that the other threat is more likely. If you mix them up and shoot the police chiefs relative just where do you end up. In the back reaches of the world there is only one thing for certain. Everyone knows every one else except you.
__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2006, 23:56   #57
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
copy of a post on that other forum that may may the gun toters second think the consequences


I have always wondered if the people advocating bringing fire arms when cruising knows of the consequences if caught.

Jack shares his experience in this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack frost
I have seen boats waiting for me and as I get close they pass very close to my bow, only to drop the fishing nets. This is because they think they have taken my good luck. I have seen small fast boats go so close to my bow I lost sight of them, they wear hoods on their heads, but thats to protect them from the sun.
.........
I have had the life frightened out of me by big fishing boats that come up on my stern so fast with more that 15 men on board only to wave and pass on by.

What would happen to someone who brought a firearm into Thailand on his cruiser, got frightened by the big fishing boat that came up by the stern and fired, killing one of the 15 men that only wanted to wave as they passed?

I asked my lawyer that question when this thread was young... Minimum jail sentence for murder or man slaughter is 3 years in Thailand. Note that this is minimum and certainly does NOT apply to a farang killing an innocent fisherman who just wanted to wave at him. Illegally bringing in a gun into Thailand would add another year or so to the jail sentence.

So how long? The lawyer thought for a while and said, He'll probably be out after 5-6 years. Not less, possibly more. Bribing? No, not for murder or man slaugher.

If this happens when you're 44, then you'll be out again just in time for your 50th birthday... But you could miss that birthday too.

In Asia, my recommendation would be;
Relax guys - They don't want to kill you, they just want your things, OK?

Mikey

this starts in 2004 Dealing with pirates - Boat Design Forums

Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2006, 00:15   #58
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
And a Thai prison cell ain't no luxury accomodation like the western world prison cells are.
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2006, 00:58   #59
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
well said, cat man do!
__________________
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2006, 08:47   #60
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
Well, I put one of these on my bow and I haven't had a problem since:



Scary though, isn't it??
__________________

__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flare-guns and other alternatives (excluding guns) as weapons BlueSovereign Health, Safety & Related Gear 5 26-03-2009 08:01



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.