Fire Extinguisher Discussion

[a64pilot]

I have a half dozen on my boat that are at least 20 yrs old, I fired two that worked perfectly so I have kept the rest and have added a couple of Halon aircraft fire extinguishers and will buy a Halotron too.
The dry chemicals are really not all that good, and will very quickly make the inside of a boat uninhabitable.
I have three automatic ones as well.
Fire scares me more than storms or sinking, its what can put you in the water without enough time to grab anything, and may be injured too

[capngeo]

25 years as a professional firefighter has given me the opportunity to fire off more extinguishers than probably the rest of the membership combined. I even taught fire extinguisher classes at the local YC using out-of-date commercial cans. I NEVER had an extinguisher with a(n undamaged) gauge showing green fail to fire. THAT SAID, your insurance company might have a pass if your extinguisher is out of inspection.

• NEVER "test" a dry chem extinguisher: it WILL leak down after
• Chloroflorocarbon extinguishers are great for ENCLOSED (non-inhabitated) spaces
• CO2 extinguishers are great in the galley; they put out the fire and don't flood the galley with messy powder
• Check the outside of the can for rust
• Check the nozzle for obstructions
• Have a dedicated firefighting pump independent of the main DC Buss or engine driven (FWIW, this pump with a little plumbing can double as an emergency de-watering pump)

On the last bullet, a good stream of water on an incipient fire is one of the most effective extinguishing agents available on a cruising boat; BUT it has to have adequate volume of delivery or you are "pissing in the wind"

[Roy M]

Having had a dry chemical extinguisher accidentally discharge inside a (fortunately) very old and disposable car, I now use only Halon, Halotron and AFFF foam extinguishers on my boat, and STRONGLY suggest to anyone who will listen to trash their dry chemical extinguishers. And, as Pete7 suggested, buy a fire blanket from a lab supply house.

Yachting Monthly did a series called the Crash Boat Series where they​ progressively destroy a sailboat by dismasting, rolling, setting fire to it, and lots of other entertaining tortures. The demonstration of a dry chemical extinguisher inside the boat needed no description. It causes deeper, more lasting damage than the initial fire. There are much better alternatives.

[UNCIVILIZED]

I know when I was in the Navy, as well as piloting commercial vessels, we always had dedicated Halon systems in machinery spaces. And yes, Halon's tough to come by for recreational boaters now. BUT, there are other options for permanent mounting a fire suppression system in your engine room/enclosure. Even if it's naught but a dry chem extinguisher mounted to a panel, with it's nozzle poking through a hole in said panel.

Thus, at the first hint of trouble, you just pull the safety pin out, & squeeze the nozzle. Which hopefully takes care of whatever fire was trying to get started in the engine room.

This, without having to open up the space to check if there's a fire, & or, try & put it out. Since as soon as you open the compartment/room, you allow a large volume of oxygen in, & lots of smoke out into the cabin.

Also, there are replacements available for Halon, if you're inclined to have a serious system onboard. They use gasses which similarly displace the oxygen needed for the fire to burn. And in a number of systems can be substituted for Halon.

PS: It helps to have mechanical (not electrical) fuel & air cutoffs for the engine, & engine compartment. Since electrical ones can easily fail if the fire gets to their wiring.

EDIT: Ken, if you're going to go to the effort & expense of testing out a few of your extinguishers, were it me, I'd want to set up a "demonstrator fire", & let all of the crew get some hands on time using them on an actual fire. Even if the fire is little more than some kindling, & a bit of kerosene in a barbeque grill (on land).

Also, to add a small dose of reality to it. Before they go to put out the fire, first have each party sprint a couple of hundred meters, in order to get their heart rate & adrenaline up. Much as would be the case during the real thing. Since in such emergencies your fine motor skills all but disappear, as do your higher level brain functions.

And feel free to add any other stressors that you'd like to. Such as setting off a loud, hand held air horn a few feet from their head during the drill. Or have them wear sunglasses that have 75% of the lenses taped over, to mimic how hard it is to see a fire through smoke, or at night.

Train like it's the real thing. Since when the real thing happens, you default to the level of your training.

[swisscraft]

I second Roy M!

When I started sailing decades ago I had a gasoline engine where the Carburetor bursts into flames...the damage from the fire was minimal but the powder damage totalled the (small) boat !!

After we cleaned the mess for days the boat started to looked like we would have vaporise saltwater inside (and that was on a fresh water lake). The powder was everywhere, it contains some kind of a salty compound which lead to oxidation in everything. It was basically a wreck.

Since then I just have CO2 and foam extinguisher (Halon is not a legal option). Disadvantage I see with foam is the fact that you need it bigger, watch if the extinguisher can survive freezing temperatures and limited C & E capabilities. Thats when I would use CO2 and in the kitchen of course the always ready fire blanket.

Bottom line is, I would use every fire extinguisher whiteout a hesitation while I would maybe think twice before I use powder - which may lead to dangerous delays...but thats how I'm wired now...

cheers

[Kenomac]

Since my wife and I read about the couple who's boat caught fire and sank in the Sea of Cortez last year, she now hooks up our deck wash hose in the forward head as part of our passage preparation. So while we're underway, the hose is always primed and ready to fight a fire using the seventy five foot hose with 200 gallons of fresh water. She began doing this in 2016.

[a64pilot]

There are I am sure better sites to buy them, but Halon is still available and legal in the US. This is just the site I know about, Halon is not cheap.
I think it's all recycled gas, maybe production of new gas is not allowed?
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php?s=Halon

[Copacabana]

Doesn't the fire extinguisher have a service date on it? All mine have a validity date (3 years I think) and then you take them to a place where they recharge them (quite inexpensively too).

[thomm225]

If all else fails, just replace them.

I bought one yesterday for $18.67. (small dry chemical w/gauge) The larger ones were $24.00 plus tax.

I now have the required two for my size boat.

I have a third where the gauge reads just below the green and you can feel movement in it when you turn it over.

A forth one had no movement so I removed it from the boat

[Seabeau]

Keep mind that the use of Halon produces a byproduct, dangerous phosgene gas. If you use Halon you need to ventilate those spaces prior to reentry.

[Cottontop]

Some local fire stations will recharge extinguishers for less than the cost of a new one.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by capngeo

25 years as a professional firefighter has given me the opportunity to fire off more extinguishers than probably the rest of the membership combined. I even taught fire extinguisher classes at the local YC using out-of-date commercial cans. I NEVER had an extinguisher with a(n undamaged) gauge showing green fail to fire. THAT SAID, your insurance company might have a pass if your extinguisher is out of inspection.

• NEVER "test" a dry chem extinguisher: it WILL leak down after
• Chloroflorocarbon extinguishers are great for ENCLOSED (non-inhabitated) spaces
• CO2 extinguishers are great in the galley; they put out the fire and don't flood the galley with messy powder
• Check the outside of the can for rust
• Check the nozzle for obstructions
• Have a dedicated firefighting pump independent of the main DC Buss or engine driven (FWIW, this pump with a little plumbing can double as an emergency de-watering pump)

On the last bullet, a good stream of water on an incipient fire is one of the most effective extinguishing agents available on a cruising boat; BUT it has to have adequate volume of delivery or you are "pissing in the wind"

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Since my wife and I read about the couple who's boat caught fire and sank in the Sea of Cortez last year, she now hooks up our deck wash hose in the forward head as part of our passage preparation. So while we're underway, the hose is always primed and ready to fight a fire using the seventy five foot hose with 200 gallons of fresh water. She began doing this in 2016.

I think I'm going to be keeping the fire extinguishers that I have and continuing with what we do with the water hose during passages.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

There are I am sure better sites to buy them, but Halon is still available and legal in the US. This is just the site I know about, Halon is not cheap.
I think it's all recycled gas, maybe production of new gas is not allowed?
Search Results from Aircraft Spruce

I thought there was a small exemption for aircraft (WAFUs again ) from the Montreal Agreement which effectively banned Halon for use in extinguishers for ever, well in 150 countries, did the US not sign up to it?

Not sure advising folk to use CO2 in a confined space and if anyone hasn't used a CO2 extinguisher you need to be aware how noisy they are. They will frighten the living daylights out of anyone not warned and I have seen folk drop the extinguisher. Also the nozzle is going to get very very cold, anyone holding it will have frost injuries from even a short burst. They do however, make a great way to cool down bottles of beer in a hurry.

Pete

[HopCar]

I was once on a boat that had a small fire. The engine stopped and when we opened the compartment we saw a small metal box on the side of the engine dripping flaming plastic into the bilge.

The batteries were disconnected and a small dry chemical extinguisher was unloaded on the fire. Fire out, for maybe 3 seconds.

Another extinguisher, flames out, flames back. Now we're getting scared. A nearby boat came over and handed us a large expensive Halon extinguisher.

Just before we pulled the trigger on the Halon, the boat owner came out of the cabin with a pot of water. That did it, fire out for good. About a gallon of water cooled it enough to prevent re-ignition.

The clean up wasn't too bad as the dry chemical extinguishers were just rated BC. The chemical was just baking soda which washed off easily.

My understanding is that ABC extinguishers use a chemical which melts and forms a glaze over the burning material. Much more effective but much harder to clean.

[puffcard]

This is a great tread.

I was thinking I had a good firefighting plan, now revising it. I'm trying to get away from dry chemical as the first line of defense, by adding a Halotron fire extinguisher and another fire blanket. I'm scared of a dry chem going off in the boat, I've seen the mess and damage they leave. I do have a saltwater washdown system thru the boat with many connection points. Question is saltwater without AFFF a ok firefighting medium? I know it's conductive so electrical firefighting isn't so great.