EPIRBs - The Differences

[noelex 77]

The EPIRB registration system is a bit of a mess.
Boats are bought and sold internationally complete with EPIRB. It is not unusual for a cruising boat to change the country of registration.

Surely the powers that be can arrange a system that any EPIRB can be registered in any country without the need to send the EPIRB back to the manufacturer.

The practical effect of the current system is incorrectly, or unregistered EPIRBs

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The EPIRB registration system is a bit of a mess.

Boats are bought and sold internationally complete with EPIRB. It is not unusual for a cruising boat to change the country of registration.



Surely the powers that be can arrange a system that any EPIRB can be registered in any country without the need to send the EPIRB back to the manufacturer.



The practical effect of the current system is incorrectly, or unregistered EPIRBs

The big problem is the lack of a single globally searchable distributed database. The type of thing that's piss easy today with cloud based databases. Unfortunately loads of legacy systems exists in many countries and it's a low priority task to upgrade them. Not to mention countries data protection laws actually forbid them uploading their database into a global one.

Note a cruising boat changing its flag registration doesn't invalidate the Epirb registration. Ultimately once the hex country code of the Epirb matched where you have the registration details , then the correct MRCC will receive the Epirb alert. Even if that MRCC isn't actually physically the right one. That's because MRCCs hand off wrong physical alerts to the correct MRCC quickly.

Dave


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[ka4wja]

Hell to all,
I've got a good sense of humor and always like a good laugh...but here I need to be a bit serious, as some of this early lightheartedness is masking some VERY misleading information, and could cost someone their life.

For details of what happens when an EPIRB is activated....PLEASE read these threads and the links there (especially the COSPAS-SARSAT links and the Cruising World links.)

http://www.ssca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15457

http://www.ssca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16705




Dave points out a VERY important reason to properly register your EPIRB, in its proper country, of course....

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

There is a reason for this. Epirb beacon databases are not global. Individual databases are maintained by each Epirb registering authority. ( or a common maintained by cospas sarsat for countries with no authority )

Hence when the ground station processes the hex code ( as a very minimum. ) it MUST know where to direct the query. Otherwise national rescue centres have to manually reroute the SAR lookup to the national MRCC so as to retrieve the registry information.

Imagine the delays while say a US MRCC manually asks all the worlds registries to search to find a Epirb that it can't locate , even though the country code says its US. In practice it doesn't happen. The rescue assets are deployed to an unknown Epirb.

PLEASE read what he wrote here....and the links above....and you aal just may learn some cool things, and just maybe save your own life someday!


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No....

Originally Posted by Orchidius

So it's just a matter of having the paperwork in order?

As Dave has laid out, there is more to it...







Well, sort-of....

Originally Posted by Wotname

Yes it will always work!!!
The country code is just a function so that the station first receiving the transmission knows which country's database to go looking in to find the details of the owner and emergency contact details and so forth.

Yes, it will still transmit the signal, and yes the satellites will still pick-up the signal, and yes the COSPAS-SARSAT system will be notified of the alert....BUT...
But, it is what happens on the ground / at an RCC, that will cause delays in response...(and in some areas, may actually cause a "non-response"...)
Please, everyone, understand that proper registering is quick 'n easy, and is a VERY important part of the EPIRB and COSPAS-SARSAT system...
If you don't believe me, please have a look at the threads I referenced above and read the COSPAS-SARSAT links, as well as Beth Leonard's excellent articles on the Cruising World's links!!!






Actually, if you get lucky, they WILL only be delayed..

Originally Posted by Orchidius

They'll come to the rescue, but will have no clue as to who they're rescuing
I would probably be looking at a fine for not having the paperwork in order afterwards though?

There is a LOT more to an EPIRB registration that just someone knowing your name!!!
(as I wrote right up front, I've got a sense of humor....but why anyone would propagate such misinformation in a public forum, is beyond me!!
Again, PLEASE read the threads referenced above (and the links provided), and I think you'll actually learn how inappropriate these flippant comment are....







Dave, in "first world nations"....yes, probably only a delay....

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In all cases unregistered or not the SAR services will respond, even if there is a delay.

But, in 3rd world areas, there may not even be a SAR response....a delay may be only be a dream...
See, the articles linked to, in the above thread....(and, Evans and Beth's friend's real-world experience in Indonesian ?? waters....)






rockDAWG, what can I say here that would change your mind????

Originally Posted by rockDAWG

That is one of my most resentment of the EPIRB system. It is so outdated. Some of the older EPIRB does not transmit its GPS coordinates. A tiny little SPOT II or III with 3x AAA battery can transit a signal with GPS data to get rescue.
The 3 crew members from Sean Seamour II almost died because someone entered their data incorrectly in their data bank. USCG almost discarded its SOS signal.

PLEASE read the above referenced SSCA thread, and read the links provided there....and maybe you'll come around....
If not, at least I tried!!!








Wotname, yes....

Originally Posted by Wotname

You can do the exactly the same thing with the EPIRB system - at least you can in Australia; can't comment for other countries. I can log onto AMSA (Aussie Maritime Safety Authority) update any of my details, emergency contact numbers.....

When the button is pushed, they go straight to the database for the latest info.

Just curious, can't that be done in North America or Europe???

Yes, we can do that in the US.....






Okay, enough for now....just wanted to be sure that some factual info was available to all of you....
Do with it, what you will....
Just remember that spending 5 minutes reading a few pages and a few minutes properly registering your EPIRB, could save your life (or the life of a loved-one) someday....and it's FREE....
Not too much to ask is it???
And, heck you don't even need to admit to anyone here that you had some incorrect info, etc....I won't tell...



Fair winds...


John
s/v Annie Laurie

[goboatingnow]

John is right in regards delays. Firstly even with a GPIRB, protocol is that the SAR alert will not leave the ground station until a Doppler fix is obtained. Hence there is a hour or more for the first pass , ( and multiple passes could be necessary if the signal is weak )

Then as is pointed out, even in first world countries there can be hours of delay, while the MRCC determines if there is an emergency. This is because over 90% of global EPIRB alerts are false. Then depending on your location , it could be hours or days before a ship hoves into view. For an unregistered or wrong registered Epirb SAR assets in certain parts of the world may never come.

Note that the small GPIRB PLBs can have great trouble reaching the Geostar bird as the antenna is poor and often obscured. You really need to remove it from your body and hold it as high as you can.

All in all using PLBs as a mob device is pure nonsense, in most cases it's a dead body recovery system.

Dave


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[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Note a cruising boat changing its flag registration doesn't invalidate the Epirb registration. Ultimately once the hex country code of the Epirb matched where you have the registration details , then the correct MRCC will receive the Epirb alert.

Thanks for the clarification Dave

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

NO you don't. The Epirb is not programmed with an mmsi number. But the mmsi number is captured in the registration database .

Dave

I never said the MMSI is programmed into the EPIRB , I said that when registering an EPIRB, AMSA require you to provide your DSC MMSI ( assuming you have DSC).
The reason for this would be so that the EPIRB and the DSC equipment are linked within their data base thingo.

[Celestialsailor]

I bought an Ocean Signal EPIRB/GPS, also made in the UK. Also for the mid $300s. I got it off Amazon, only to find the 7 years battery, 4 years away from expiration. The vender offered no help. The manufacturer, however, offered to pro-rate a battery in 4 years for me. Good customer service and...you can install the battery, yourself and...it can be shipped by mail being an eco-battery.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

It's getting tiring because you made factually wrong statements and continue to make them......




....Finally many Epirb companies will not support grey market reprogramming , a local ACR dealer refused to reprogram an US Epirb. For me. For example......

Dave


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Yes, another good reason to buy locally!

Thanks Dave for all the time and effort taken to provide good factual data in this thread

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by mpatter894

wrong....... I am a GMDSS certified maintainer argue with me if you like but you are wrong

No, I won't worry about arguing with you as I realize GMDSS maintainer certification thumps decades of installing / maintaining / testing / repairing beacons.

I am happy to continue being wrong

Oh, I forgot to add the hundreds of beacons I have activated. Thankfully only one in anger and only perhaps a dozen by mistake. So I can claim some credit in being responsible for some of the 90% of false transmissions

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I never said the MMSI is programmed into the EPIRB , I said that when registering an EPIRB, AMSA require you to provide your DSC MMSI ( assuming you have DSC).
The reason for this would be so that the EPIRB and the DSC equipment are linked within their data base thingo.

The fact is many registration authorities do program the epirb with an MMSI. But the fact remains that you don't need it for the epirb to work and be correctly registered, 406 MHz beacons predate the widespread adoption of MMSI.


Dave

[goboatingnow]

We have installers , maintainers on here I suppose , me , being involved at the time in the initial GMDSS spec development doesn't count. Lol

Arguments are the spice of life

Dave

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The fact is many registration authorities do program the epirb with an MMSI.

Dave

they don't 'program' the EPIRB... they put the MMSI on their database...

I really truly don't know why I bother......

edited before the epirb polis kick me in the goolies again... I think I am agreeing with you... after a fashion...
El Ping..
GMDSS General Operators Certificate of Proficiency number V21 issued on 14/5/92 ( I won't mention that again...)

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Get a grip there Sunshine...they don't 'program' the EPIRB... they put the MMSI on their database...

I really truly don't know why I bother......

Me neither , I just wonder why three protocols are present in the epirb which all use MMSI and I know of several registries who use MMSI IN the epirb as the identification method.

So yes they very much do programme in the MMSI in certain beacon registries into the epirb.

Part of the reason is the ITU database of ships ( by MMSI ) is global and online and hence serves as an alternative accessible method of identifying the ship without access to the local beacon registry. ( the ITU directory is also printed out in telephone directory style books too )

Dave

[nigel1]

Somebody managed to get the MMSI number into this EPIRB