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Old 05-10-2008, 10:52   #1
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Countries battle Pirates

Developed countries push back vs. pirates - Yahoo! News
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Old 05-10-2008, 17:39   #2
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1st im glad we are finaly doing somthing about the pirates and two(2) " the ships cant be everywhere at once." that is what the USA's mothball fleet should be used for.
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Old 05-10-2008, 19:51   #3
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that is what the USA's mothball fleet should be used for.
Much of the fleet are here in Hampton Roads. Rotting and hoping to be hauled away for scrap so as to relieve us of the pollution danger they represent. The idea that there is a mothball fleet that could be out there patrolling the woe world on the cheap is really not a serious idea.

Piracy at it's heart and it's entire history is about armed robbery with overwhelming force. It's 2000 years old and in many parts of the world it is as much tradition as any other activity. It's not special from other criminal activities nor any more dangerous. They don't wear patches over the eye any more. You don't know who they are by looking at them. The entire world is not a safe place for recreational boating - never has been. In a global sense it's not a high priority for anyone.
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Old 05-10-2008, 21:16   #4
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The mothball fleet here near the SF Bay are vessels that probably have an average age of close to 50 years, have high manning requirements and appear to be in poor condition, at least cosmetically. They are certainly not the most efficient ships either nor are they very large by todays standards.

This picture show one row. There are seven rows of these ships.



The battleship Iowa is there which is probably the only ship worth keeping for histories sake.

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Old 05-10-2008, 21:20   #5
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I don't think a fleet of any size will do the trick. But a small very well armed military contingent form perhaps the UN forces with a couple of 50 calibers and a rocket launcher on each ship as it passes Somolia and then fly them back to board the next ship and soon no problem. It is not rocket science and it is not expensive. So why is it so hard to do?
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Old 05-10-2008, 22:08   #6
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The mothball fleet here near the SF Bay are vessels that probably have an average age of close to 50 years, have high manning requirements and appear to be in poor condition, at least cosmetically. They are certainly not the most efficient ships either nor are they very large by todays standards.

This picture show one row. There are seven rows of these ships.



The battleship Iowa is there which is probably the only ship worth keeping for histories sake.

Number 1 this kind of thing makes me literally cry, that our nation's histories are rusting away in fleets like this is almost to sad to look at. but on the brighter side with the economy in the U.S. the way it is if you took these ships and fixed them ( most just need cosmetic work) number one it would save money and number 2 it would provide jobs for people that have none ( both working and serving jobs) the congress right now is trying to downsize the Armed services becauseonce they have completed the maximum nuber of tours of duty then they have notheing for the soldiers to do and must RETIRE even the ones that want to stay in the service. If they were just for pirate protection escorts then they would serve the purpose well and they would have their former dignaty restored ( plus it would serve to make itseem like we have more fully combat Ready ( and I use that term loosely) ships than we really do. BTW the U.S.S. IOWA is currently 1 of only 2 battle ships still commisioned in the U.S. Navy, it can be called out to active duty at anytime, the other is the U.S.S. ARIZONA, May They Rest In Peace.
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Old 05-10-2008, 22:15   #7
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This is not a naval problem. The amount of water to patrol is far too vast, even limiting patrols to choke points. The only historically proven way to eliminate piracy is to eliminate their support base on land. The implications of this are severe. Not only do we have to do military operations in the short term, but we have to fix the problem that breeds piracy in the first place--a declining per capita real gdp. Coincidentally, this is also the primary factor that breeds islamic extremism. Hmmm...

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Old 05-10-2008, 22:24   #8
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I know it is not a naval problem,Duh we can take out any other navy in the world in less time than it would take them to send the whole world a televised messege saying they were taking over the world. I'm inROTC I know this. But we did it back when navies still used sailing ships so why can't we do it now even if it was just a preventative mesure?
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Old 05-10-2008, 22:42   #9
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Number 1 this kind of thing makes me literally cry, that our nation's histories are rusting away in fleets like this is almost to sad to look at. but on the brighter side with the economy in the U.S. the way it is if you took these ships and fixed them ( most just need cosmetic work) number one it would save money and number 2 it would provide jobs for people that have none
Unfortunately, the fact is these ships are nowhere near competitive with 960 foot container ships and modern tankers.
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Old 05-10-2008, 22:56   #10
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the ships themselves don't need to be as long as they have weapons that are such as the british Q-Ships of World War II.
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Old 05-10-2008, 22:58   #11
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Why should my tax dollars be spent securing commercial and private vessels near some renegade coast?

But should we for some reason unknown to me decide that this is something the US should get involved in...

The answer is not to send a fleet force and battle on the high seas.

The answer is to quietly use our sattelite technology to find the rivers and inlets that are supplying the pirates. Then in a coordinated attack you take out the villages and the entire support system in one attack.

Boats can't live without land based support no matter what Waterworld may depict.

And yes innocent people in the support villages will get hurt and die and that's sad. But there is only one way to win and that is to win - not dilly dally. You take out the "entire" support structure in one go.

However - For the record the commercial interests (the shippers) should be paying for security on the high seas not me. What interest do I personally have in protecting Russian tanks headed for a 3rd world dictatorship - None!
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Old 05-10-2008, 23:26   #12
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Ex I don't mean to be rude but Do you like the diesel you put in your boat, what about the rice that you might eat or the exotic foods the resturants serve? it all comes buy boat and I never said to use tax dollars, although it would make it easier to just send ships and blow the supply bases to hel! we already are diverting ships for this type of duty so why not put more, we could even make the big shipping companies pay for the navy to protect them, but we won't because a navy ahs three main purposes
1. Defend our coast
2. protect shipping
3. protect the territorial waters
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Old 06-10-2008, 00:08   #13
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So you are going to convert the US Navy into privateers?

When we divert ships for this purpose or bring out mothballed fleets as you proposed where does the money come from if not taxes?

Is this a volunteer fleet paid for by philanthropy? Or are we using Monopoly money?

Here's a tip - Whenever someone starts a sentence with "I don't want to be rude..." It means they are about to be rude.

I don't want to be rude but you need about 10-15 more years before you start lacturing me or anyone on international trade, the supply chain for food and oil and the mission of our military.

Maybe after you get to working and start paying the taxes for it...
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:47   #14
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Number 1 this kind of thing makes me literally cry, that our nation's histories are rusting away in fleets like this is almost to sad to look at. but on the brighter side with the economy in the U.S.
It's not done on the cheap,. Of the state class warships only one is not officially mothballed. The Wisconsin could be made active and is sitting in downtown Norfolk, VA. It was upgraded with some modern gear for Kuwait. It is doubtful it would ever be activated but the Navy reserved the right to do so. I doubt they have gun crews trained to fire the 16 inch guns or any military reason to do so. The New Jersey is in NJ across the river from Philadelphia and can be toured. The Arizona is where it has remained since Decemeber 1941. I'm not sure of any of the others still any place you can see them.

Our ghost fleet here on the James River has been dwindling now that scrap iron prices are up. There were hundreds. They are loaded with asbestos, PCB's and an assortment of other toxic contents. They are at best towable to the scrap yard and include commercial and military vessels. David M's picture is a good look at what they are - floating junk that is too toxic to run out and sink.

As far as the nations history rusting away . I think we have enough infrastructure rusting that needs to be saved first.
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:06   #15
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The IMB recommends round-the-clock radar watches and use of a tool called Secure Ship a "non-lethal, electrifying fence" that sends out a 9,000-volt pulse to repel potential intruders.
Now why in the world would they want to use Non-lethal" devices? I'm more of a 34,500 volt, 400 Amp kind of guy.
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