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Old 01-04-2017, 05:53   #31
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pirate Re: alternative to tether

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Originally Posted by deluxe68 View Post
You will still get knocked overboard if the wave is big enough. Balance has nothing to do with it.
Forgot to say.. the 3 things work together.. balance alone is not enough if your not holding on as you work/move and/or cannot react fast enough to deal with the conditions.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:54   #32
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Re: alternative to tether

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Originally Posted by Livia View Post
Just curious if you have tried the same test with webbing? Honest question - I totally agree about dyneema but although webbing (commonly used in safety attachments) is somewhat more forgiving, I wonder if it would feel similar if you ran away from it?

There is a new attachment system on the market for climbers that uses dynamic rope, in an adjustable length system. Haven't read the material to know if it is rated for short falls yet.

https://www.rei.com/product/890387/p...adjust-lanyard

I have not tried running from it either!
Yes, I have tested with webbing. Try it, you won't like that either.

This is such a simple test. You don't need to ask. I really do wish people would try this and then report back. That is the only way the word will spread.

As a result, I switched to 2-leg dynamic tethers. No hard stop, plenty light. Easier on the harness, the anchors, the jackline, and me.



I've leaned on and fallen against tethers, a lot. It was clam this day, but often in testing, it is not. Notice that sometimes there is no "one hand for yourself" option. Same with MOB recovery. You need 2 hands.
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Old 01-04-2017, 06:24   #33
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Re: alternative to tether

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post

As a result, I switched to 2-leg dynamic tethers. No hard stop, plenty light. Easier on the harness, the anchors, the jackline, and me.

Interesting. Can you provide more information on these, or point to it? How they work, how to rig them properly, etc.

Interesting because I think "one size fits all" tethers are not workable on all boats given differences in size, clip in points, deck layout, rigging, etc.
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:29   #34
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Re: alternative to tether

I use side deck jacklines and have not had to do serious test in 40+plus years, so a combination of good luck and good management I guess. We have a centre cockpit boat so a jackline on the centre line of the boat means that you are having to release and reconnect when you go around the dodger into the cockpit, not to mention at the mast and to reconnect to go onto the stern. We can go the length of the boat on either side without having to disconnect the tether. In really snotty conditions don't be too proud to crawl forward using the short tether. Having the centre of mass really low is very, very useful.

Tethers and backlines are not meant to get you back onboard if you go overboard, but they sometimes do. Had a friend get tossed over and then redeposited on deck a few seconds later.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:02   #35
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Re: alternative to tether

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Forgot to say.. the 3 things work together.. balance alone is not enough if your not holding on as you work/move and/or cannot react fast enough to deal with the conditions.

Do you climb the mast with or without a harness and tether?
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:33   #36
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pirate Re: alternative to tether

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Do you climb the mast with or without a harness and tether?
Without.. in this example as it has steps.. however if the only option is a bosuns chair and assistance then I use a safety line.. its a matter of trust.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:40   #37
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Re: alternative to tether

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Without..
That does not answer my question. Yes or no, are you attached to a safety line to keep you from falling?
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:44   #38
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pirate Re: alternative to tether

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That does not answer my question. Yes or no, are you attached to a safety line to keep you from falling?
In the picture no.. see addendum to previous post
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:41   #39
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Re: alternative to tether

Since I view my jacklines/tether set up as there to prevent me from going over the side, I made some firm decisions. My jackline is down the center of my boat so I can attach to either side. My jackline is banjo taunt. My tether is a double tether (3'/6'). I plan to attach using the 3' length and don't care if I crawl up the side of my boat. But, don't want to be extended where I can go over the side. Have talked to too many boaters that all said, "if you go over, your odds of survival are slim". That is especially true is single-handing. My point, build a system that doesn't allow you to go over in the first place.
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:49   #40
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Re: alternative to tether

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
Interesting. Can you provide more information on these, or point to it? How they work, how to rig them properly, etc.

Interesting because I think "one size fits all" tethers are not workable on all boats given differences in size, clip in points, deck layout, rigging, etc.
Some of the best threads are those that discuss how people have actually fallen off. For example, the narrow bit around the cabin scares people, but no one falls from there, because they are holding on. Where do they fall?
  • While anchored or while docking. A ladder is the cure.
  • Of the bow to leeward while working.
  • Occasionally a tack or jibe with bow crew in a bad place.
  • Out of the cockpit, either from a big wave or lifeline failure.
  • Slide off multihull due to fast stop.
  • Standing near sternrail doing something, such as securing dinghy.
  • To leeward from cabin top while working at the mast.
My advice is to look at the boat and think about where you can actually fall. Overall, there are very few falls to windward and very few falls when people are moving, holding on, only when they are working. So protect where people work, for the direction they will actually fall, generally forward and leeward.


My other thought is not to fixate on the cleats as anchor points; they may not be the right place. Moreover, the cleats are used for other things, and jacklines should be permanent, IMO. You don't put your seatbelts away and save them only for the interstate, do you?
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:04   #41
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Re: alternative to tether

Thank you. Great post. I for sure am scared to death of falling overboard and hold on everywhere. I do not use cleats. I installed padeye's where I wanted them (bow, near mast, in front of dodger, in cockpit). Then I used dyneema for jacklines. Ran one from bow, through padeye near mast and attached to padaye just in front of dodger. Then ran one from padeye in front of dodger to edge of cockpit. Then ran one from one from one end of cockpit to the other. Yes, it is a pain to hook/unhook when going forward from cockpit. But, better a few extra seconds and safe. My jacklines are all very tight so if I go down, I am not going far. When working at the bow or mast, I will hook directly to the padeye at that location, not the jackline. I won't go far if I get knocked down. At the end of the day, better be damn careful. Makes sense why old sailors didn't wear lifejackets and have jacklines. Made them more careful.
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Old 01-04-2017, 12:08   #42
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Re: alternative to tether

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Originally Posted by Sailsarefull View Post
Thank you. Great post. I for sure am scared to death of falling overboard and hold on everywhere. I do not use cleats. I installed padeye's where I wanted them (bow, near mast, in front of dodger, in cockpit). Then I used dyneema for jacklines. Ran one from bow, through padeye near mast and attached to padaye just in front of dodger. Then ran one from padeye in front of dodger to edge of cockpit. Then ran one from one from one end of cockpit to the other. Yes, it is a pain to hook/unhook when going forward from cockpit. But, better a few extra seconds and safe. My jacklines are all very tight so if I go down, I am not going far. When working at the bow or mast, I will hook directly to the padeye at that location, not the jackline. I won't go far if I get knocked down. At the end of the day, better be damn careful. Makes sense why old sailors didn't wear lifejackets and have jacklines. Made them more careful.
  • If you use Dyneema for jacklines the force multiplier is nonvenomous. They should exceed World Sailing minimums by 50% at least. There is no stretch, and the standards do not account for this.
  • The rules do not state how many times you can clip and unclip. Hard to say. Personally, I like long lines, with local points as needed (for me, mast and aft of cockpit (center cockpit)).
The other thing I like are higher lifelines. An old school solution that I poo-pooed for years... until I tried it.

Sail Delmarva: High Lifelines



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Old 01-04-2017, 12:44   #43
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Re: alternative to tether

Just an idea that no one has mentioned but I think is relevant.
Offshore we rig an extra line from the pushpit to the shrouds and on to the pulpit on both sides at about waist or chest height as an extra lifeline to help keep people aboard. Note we don't use these as jacklines but were completely separate.
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Old 01-04-2017, 13:23   #44
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Re: alternative to tether

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Just an idea that no one has mentioned but I think is relevant.
Offshore we rig an extra line from the pushpit to the shrouds and on to the pulpit on both sides at about waist or chest height as an extra lifeline to help keep people aboard. Note we don't use these as jacklines but were completely separate.
That is exactly what I showed above (the purple/white line), though perhaps the angle camouflages the point and I run them a little lower (waist-high). Very helpful.

Obviously, they work best with outboard shrouds.
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Old 01-04-2017, 13:43   #45
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Re: alternative to tether

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Some of the best threads are those that discuss how people have actually fallen off. For example, the narrow bit around the cabin scares people, but no one falls from there, because they are holding on. Where do they fall?
Can you provide more info on the tether you have pictured? What makes it "dynamic"-- the line used or the hitch at the carabiner? Is the second, shorter leg just for shortening up when you can? I'm wondering if the hitch works along the lines of a friction brake.
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