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Old 07-07-2012, 08:08   #31
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Not for me. I want both.
+1. Meee TOOOOO!
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:08   #32
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Originally Posted by neilpride
You still need Paper charts to negotiate a Atoll pass in the pacific, or to cross many tricky places in the bahamas
Why?

Im defo pro paper, however all marine relevant info on plotters is pulled from the same that is used for paper.

Seems to me a plotter in the cockpit, a person aloft, and a competant skipper would find it vastly easier to navigate an atoll entrance with a plotter than with paper?

Edit: i say this because when using a plotter to enter a pass you will be at a high zoom level so no info will be "hidden"
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:16   #33
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Why?

Im defo pro paper, however all marine relevant info on plotters is pulled from the same that is used for paper.

Seems to me a plotter in the cockpit, a person aloft, and a competant skipper would find it vastly easier to navigate an atoll entrance with a plotter than with paper?

Edit: i say this because when using a plotter to enter a pass you will be at a high zoom level so no info will be "hidden"
Let us know how that works out when you are alone.....
I lived and worked on the largest atoll on the planet, Kwajalien - lots of ways in and out. Have been to the smallest atoll on the planet - Kapingimarangi, one way in and out. Might want all the help you can have on board. Just my opinion, I could be wrong....
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:17   #34
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
You still need Paper charts to negotiate a Atoll pass in the pacific, or to cross many tricky places in the bahamas , thats why we see many hard groundings or boats loss at reefs in many well charted spots, and about Lightning, a simple electronic barometer can be toasted feets away of any dc wiring .
Cheers.
The last time I crused the pacific electronic charts were in their infancy (but I hope to get back soon) so it was all paper.
You raise a good point. Certainly if electronic charts do not provide adequate coverage of a particular area, then paper charts will be needed ( provided they provide better coverage)
I think instances of this are rare and getting rarer. One of the big advantage of electronic charts is that I have 3 independent electronic mapping systems often one system will show more detail.
Photos and a google map overlay on the electronic chart add further to the information.

I am also finding the addition of a a "community layer" on electronic charts is becoming useful.

The other aspect of electronic charts that is incredibly helpful in out of the way places, or where the mapping is poor, is to overlay the radar image. This cannot be done with paper although the information can still be compared.
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:30   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdvick
Let us know how that works out when you are alone.....
I lived and worked on the largest atoll on the planet, Kwajalien - lots of ways in and out. Have been to the smallest atoll on the planet - Kapingimarangi, one way in and out. Might want all the help you can have on board. Just my opinion, I could be wrong....
Done numerous passes in SP both pre plotter era and post. Dont see much difference. Finding pass entrance seems to me much easier with plotter. Going through pass at slack water with one aloft looking for bommies mostly by eye with an occasional glance at the plotter for confirmation worked for me.

Never figured out how to take a running fix while transiting a pass or take time to lay a way point in the days pre plotter. Running in on a compass bearing using something in front for a transit and someone aloft to avoid nasties was the best i had. Do the same now but have the reassurance of looking down at a plotter to confirm what i am seeing.

Is especially nice when an entrance has a dogleg or a split
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:42   #36
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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Let us know how that works out when you are alone.....
I lived and worked on the largest atoll on the planet, Kwajalien - lots of ways in and out. Have been to the smallest atoll on the planet - Kapingimarangi, one way in and out. Might want all the help you can have on board. Just my opinion, I could be wrong....
Singlehanded is where the speed of navigation with chartplotter is a major advantage . Eyeballing the bommies is not the time to plot your position on the paper chart if you can help it.
Does a typical paper chart portfolio of a well equipped crusing boat provide more detail than a similar electronic portfolio?
My experience has been that the electronic charts (particularly when multiple charting options are available) are superior to the generally carried paper option although if you had every paper chart available of an area it would give more detail, but this would involve enormous paper chart numbers for a long distance crusing boat and is not practical.
What is the experience of others?
It is an area that is changing very rapidly as the hardware and software for electronic charts becomes much cheaper, and electronic storage media increases enabling very large numbers of electronic charts to be stored for a reasonable cost.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:06   #37
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

How does one navigate when your electronics no longer function? Some unwisely assume that this is not possible.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:20   #38
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

i will not negotiate a passage without paper charts--there are still many lil bits not entered into the electronic charts from paper. the electronic charts in some locales are not accurate. paper charts have these tidbits on them and will continue to be my primary source of info.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:41   #39
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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How does one navigate when your electronics no longer function? Some unwisely assume that this is not possible.
My proposal is that with enough redundancy ( which I outlined in earlier posts) the chance of failure of the electronic charts is very slim. Importantly I believe the risk of this failure is now so low it is reasonable to cruise without a paper chart backup.
Some, I think, are confusing failure of the GPS system. This is largely irrelevant as navigation with both paper and electronic charts are (almost) equally effected. Given the low probability of gps failure ( with suitable backups) it seems a very minor difference even if you feel paper charts would be significantly easier to use if a failure of the GPS system occurred.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:45   #40
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
My proposal is that with enough redundancy ( which I outlined in earlier posts) the chance of failure of the electronic charts is very slim. Importantly I believe the risk of this failure is now so low it is reasonable to cruise without a paper chart backup.
Some, I think, are confusing failure of the GPS system. This is largely irrelevant as navigation with both paper and electronic charts are (almost) equally effected. Given the low probability of gps failure ( with suitable backups) it seems a very minor difference even if you feel paper charts would be significantly easier to use if a failure of the GPS system occurred.

Have you ever met an Irishman named Murphy? He has been a close friend of mine for years.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:53   #41
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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Have you ever met an Irishman named Murphy? He has been a close friend of mine for years.
I know him well

If Murphy is going to get me I hope he chooses to disable all my electronic charts rather than the electronic stick on my next Airbus flight.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:56   #42
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

I will stop using paper charts when they quit printing them.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:10   #43
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

I never ear of a single boat doing a circunavigation with out a full set of paper charts of the areas visited, sure electronic charts are a plus, but hey how many of you be in a tricky situation following the gameboy in front of the binacle and wonder if the arrow is following a real clear path, electronic charts , ploters etc.. are aids to the navigation , paper charts are the most acurate aid to plot your position, even the most sophisticated ship bridge use paper charts , now for the OP question, i believe that trust only a single source of information like electronic charts is like playing fool.

7 separate devices with electronic charting, firts time i ear that, you mean 3 laptops, 4 chartploters? and who say paper charts take space onboard?
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:25   #44
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Originally Posted by noelex 77

I am blue water crusing.
Lightning is very unpredictable and a severe strike can do an incrediale amount of damage, but I think devices in a metal box inside a metal boat are resonably safe from the much more common mild or moderate strikes.
Of course severe lightning strikes, can and do, sink boats. This is far greater risk to life than loosing all charts where in most circumstances you could still make port safely.
Fibreglass boats sink more commonly in lightning strikes than metal boats, but it is not sensible to ask fiberglass boat owners why they want to "risk their life" taking such a chance. The risk is just too small to be a great consideration.
True....
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:33   #45
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

As a backup, the paper charts stay. I would look like an idiot if GPS went down or the plotter went out and I had to tell people the research cruise was cancelled because I did not have any paper charts onboard.
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