Yep - we dragged!

[Kenomac]

One very popular new generation anchor is notorious for claiming superior holding but has a history of not being able to re-set after pulling out. This roll bar type anchor clogs with weed or mud preventing a reset.

[a64pilot]

I have drug once.
A 38’ Boat, 40 kg Rocna, all chain and kept letting out scope up to well over 10 to 1 and still dragging.
I knew I was in soft mud, cause I could drag it when backing down.
After talking a lot about it on this forum, best theory was that the anchor may have been dropped on its back and just sank in the soft mud, roll bar wouldn’t right it, mud was too soft.
I was never in any real danger treating it more as an experiment than anything.
If I had weighed anchor and reset, I believe all would have been fine.

[SVRocinante]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Your Spade should be way oversized relative to our displacement/40kg Rocna and should be fine. We always have ~25' of snubber out (dual leg).


I think any anchor will have a difficult time handling a strong 180 wind shift. Good thing was it reset quickly.


Also if you are in the main creek area, the bottom may get "soupy" from over anchoring. Try that side cove I mentioned previously as it's a little further down the creek and less popular for anchoring due to the 2 minutes more one needs to motor into town.



Bill O.

Thanks again Bill O.

[SVRocinante]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I have drug once.
A 38’ Boat, 40 kg Rocna, all chain and kept letting out scope up to well over 10 to 1 and still dragging.
I knew I was in soft mud, cause I could drag it when backing down.
After talking a lot about it on this forum, best theory was that the anchor may have been dropped on its back and just sank in the soft mud, roll bar wouldn’t right it, mud was too soft.
I was never in any real danger treating it more as an experiment than anything.
If I had weighed anchor and reset, I believe all would have been fine.

Thanks a64pilot
Excellent point - As you suggested, had I not held when I originally backed down, I would have weighed anchor and tried again. What’s driving my query is that fact that we were holding just fine for almost 2 weeks including several days of continuous wind in the high teens.

again, Thank you!

[fatherchronica]

What has given us a lot of confidence is that I installed two Lexan windows in our wooden dinghy, and even in cold water we can check our set. But sometimes it is too murky, or if we are just going to overnight and continue early we do not assemble our nesting dinghy, unless the dogs have been cooped up too long. I am not sure there was anything you could do differently, often it is the luck of the draw, and your ability to do what needs to be done. Which you did.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by SVRocinante

Thanks Tornadosailing - I don’t have a Fortress, but do have a Danforth.
Might switch to that for the remainder of our time on the Chesapeake.

The original dragging was probably due to the muddy bottom. Danforth style anchors work really well in these Chesepeake conditions. The big downside to them is not resetting when you get that 180* wind shift. When Danforths were really popular primary anchors, so was setting a Bahamian moor(upstream and downstream.anchor off bow)

[Hartleyg]

We were in San Domingo creek last fall for a few days - definitely deep mud, tho our Bruce 66 had no problems with 18-25 kt from the N. The biggest problem was the sustained N wind blew the water out & it kept getting shallower!
I suspect the problem you had was the reset - I've noticed that in mud, we get a good set if we let the anchor sink into the mud for a few minutes before pulling it to set it. Once it's sunk in a bit, it will dig down nicely, while pulling right away sometimes fails to set (and, as someone earlier pointed out, if it picks up something like weeds or debris, it will never set right).

Hartley
S/V Atsa

[EllesBelles]

We are circumnavigating, have been sailing for 4 years, 40,000+ miles, and I’ll repeat the sailors adage - if you haven’t dragged, you haven’t sailed for long, so don’t feel bad. You’re now an official SAILOR.
You mentioned a snubber so I’ll share One good piece of advice we got from a sailor who literally wrote one of the well known books on sailing - and follow - don’t attach anything to your anchor line. We do use a bridle (we’re on a cat) but that’s it. Anything that keeps you from getting your anchor up as fast as possible in an emergency is a hazard.
The other thing I recommend is an anchor alarm. We use several (there are many apps you can download on your phone/tablet). They allow you to sleep peacefully knowing the anchor alarm will go off if you move outside the zone you preset. A few offer remote connections to a cell phone, and this can be a great service if you are on shore where you can’t watch your boat.
Lastly, anchor dragging is often not the fault of the anchor but rather how much chain/rode you let out, or the fact that the anchor didn’t get properly set. We always back down on our anchor fiercely using our motors and zoom way in on our furuno display to see that the boat direction is going sideways not backward to help verify that our anchor is steadfast. We usually dive the anchor after that to get a visual fix on it if conditions and depth permits.

[CBound]

Good job staying off the shore in a difficult situation! One option I have successfully used in the past when expecting a blow is to reset the anchor prior to the storm in the direction that will afford you the best holding opportunity for the worst winds expected at the height of the storm. In the end, as you did, there is no substitute for remaining at the ready to help your anchor do it’s job.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by SVRocinante

Since we have gotten into naming anchors, I was hanging on my Spade 120.
55 lbs, galvanized - designed for 59’ / 35,370lb vessel vs our 40’ 17,500lb

I also have a CQR, a Delta & a Danforth on board.

Would have thought the Spade would have been OK. Maybe more scope could have helped?

I can't comment on the CQR from first-hand experience, but we've used a Delta around here... and it skated through mud from time to time. Maybe the CQR would have been similar to that...

-Chris

[SVRocinante]

Originally Posted by fatherchronica

What has given us a lot of confidence is that I installed two Lexan windows in our wooden dinghy, and even in cold water we can check our set. But sometimes it is too murky, or if we are just going to overnight and continue early we do not assemble our nesting dinghy, unless the dogs have been cooped up too long. I am not sure there was anything you could do differently, often it is the luck of the draw, and your ability to do what needs to be done. Which you did.

Thank you fatherchronica

We’re going to have to have a chat about your nesting dinghy!
I’ve been seriously trying to figure out how to get a hard dink on this thing but between the rigid boomvang taking up the space aft of the mast & our self-tacking jib taking up the forepeak I can’t seem to find the space!

[SVRocinante]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The original dragging was probably due to the muddy bottom. Danforth style anchors work really well in these Chesepeake conditions. The big downside to them is not resetting when you get that 180* wind shift. When Danforths were really popular primary anchors, so was setting a Bahamian moor(upstream and downstream.anchor off bow)

Funny you should mention that Paul L.; wife and I spent the morning discussing a Bahamian moor!

[SVRocinante]

Originally Posted by Hartleyg

We were in San Domingo creek last fall for a few days - definitely deep mud, tho our Bruce 66 had no problems with 18-25 kt from the N. The biggest problem was the sustained N wind blew the water out & it kept getting shallower!
I suspect the problem you had was the reset - I've noticed that in mud, we get a good set if we let the anchor sink into the mud for a few minutes before pulling it to set it. Once it's sunk in a bit, it will dig down nicely, while pulling right away sometimes fails to set (and, as someone earlier pointed out, if it picks up something like weeds or debris, it will never set right).

Hartley
S/V Atsa

Thank you Hartly

Completely agree - we always let our anchor settle before we start tightening things up... and then let it settle some more before we even thing of getting off and leaving her unattended!

[GregW1309]

I read you got the 40-60 knot gust at the same time as a 180 degree wind shift. I think ithe anchor would have to be bury'ed really, really deep to keep the set. Maybe yours was still sitting near the bottom surface, since it had been light winds ? Could you have backed down harder when you set it? Perhaps setting a second anchor 180 degrees from the first would have taken up the load when the first pulled out with the direction change. But who is going to do that in the light conditions you started out with? I think your monitoring the drift and starting the motor was the proper thing!

[jasbee]

In our humble opinion the Rocna is absolutely the best anchor - we have a 25kg Rocna and NEVER dragged in New Zealand, Australia, Indonesia, Malaysia or Thailand. We are now in Turkey and yet to test the anchor here. Our yacht is 12.5 metres in length and the deadweight in cruising trim is a minimum of 15 tons.
We have of necessity anchored in some hairy circumstances but the Rocna has always seen us through.