Videos of Anchors Setting

[999999]

Thanks for your reply.
The video is not related to my post. It just shows basic and superficial capability of various anchors.

Non of the tested anchors are able to reach serious depth / to vanish in a sand depth. Those anchors have depth limitation - when overpowered all will just drag. The enormous holding power/resistance of sand is very deep below the surface where anchor will NOT drag and will hold.

Front fluke ballast and back roll-bar have only one purpose - to rotate the anchor in a correct setting position. Those elements are unfortunately preventing anchor deep sand travel.

Another issue is an anchor ability to constantly correct its position due to a pull direction/wind change. Video does not address the issue. Good anchor design is able to rotate below the sand surface/not get out even at a sudden pull/impact at 90°.

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by 999999

Thanks for your reply.
The video is not related to my post. It just shows basic and superficial capability of various anchors.

Non of the tested anchors are able to reach serious depth / to vanish in a sand depth. Those anchors have depth limitation - when overpowered all will just drag. The enormous holding power/resistance of sand is very deep below the surface where anchor will NOT drag and will hold.

Front fluke ballast and back roll-bar have only one purpose - to rotate the anchor in a correct setting position. Those elements are unfortunately preventing anchor deep sand travel.

Another issue is an anchor ability to constantly correct its position due to a pull direction/wind change. Video does not address the issue. Good anchor design is able to rotate below the sand surface/not get out even at a sudden pull/impact at 90°.

Not meaning to nit pick(though I am) if you watch the video completely he addresses the rotation issue on every anchor. Some even show the anchor chain going past the anchor, so I don't see how you came to your conclusion about "Video does not address the issue" Another point I have is the need of an anchor-any anchor- to "reach serious depth". Most of the anchors dug down enough to stop and hold the boat in the conditions Steve exposed them to- whatever pull his engine could generate. I'm pretty confident that if the pull were more, most would continue to dig deeper. Perhaps someone with a tug could do a test to see how deep these anchors would dig. All I know, from my experience with one of the anchors he tested, is it digs down deep enough to bring my boat to a screeching halt and has held my boat securely. I'm confident it would continue digging deeper if it needed to...

[SV Bacchus]

This past winter, in George Town, Exumas, Bahamas, after a storm I dove the anchor and it was gone! It is a 25K Mantus and I couldn't see the roll bar. It is the first and only time I have had the anchor bury itself that completely. I think the sand was softer enabling the anchor to sink.

[999999]

When comes to safety devises, such as an anchor, all of us should be even more "nit pick”. The video may be only a prelude to a set of new comprehensive tests, not done so far. Not done for a simple reason: who would conduct tests where most of the anchors would not pass? Magazines and dealers that survives only on advertising and sales would not do it.

Any anchor with a roll bar will never set deeper than/above its roll bar. Roll-bar limits/prevents anchor deep setting pushing the front fluke tip up! Mantus anchor is aware of the problem; that is the reason it has a very thin and large roll-bar.

Sand/mud/clay depth plays the KEY role in anchor holding power! For example, if an anchor is set in sand 8" below a surface holding power would be ~ 50 lb. - holding power in sand, 16” below the surface would be above ~ 300 lb! Anchors with (any element) front ballast, hinge, roll-bar or long, thick shank CANNOT ever set deep, they will set to a certain point and when overpowered just drag. Danforth/steel/aluminum type anchors are excellent in this aspect due to very good proportion between fluke surface/weight and a shank surface/weight. They can reach an enormous depth. The issue with Danforth is there sensitivity when a wind changes direction. Even at 15° they will get out and may never reset. The worst is when they do not get out but drag on some angle achieving only 20% of its optimal holding power.

Anchor should be capable of setting a very deep and when pull even on an impact and strong force NOT get out. Most of tested anchor would get out and may/may not reset, depending on a situation.

[sailor_ed]

Originally Posted by 999999

When comes to safety devises, such as an anchor, all of us should be even more "nit pick”. The video may be only a prelude to a set of new comprehensive tests, not done so far. Not done for a simple reason: who would conduct tests where most of the anchors would not pass? Magazines and dealers that survives only on advertising and sales would not do it.

Any anchor with a roll bar will never set deeper than/above its roll bar. Roll-bar limits/prevents anchor deep setting pushing the front fluke tip up! Mantus anchor is aware of the problem; that is the reason it has a very thin and large roll-bar.

Sand/mud/clay depth plays the KEY role in anchor holding power! For example, if an anchor is set in sand 8" below a surface holding power would be ~ 50 lb. - holding power in sand, 16” below the surface would be above ~ 300 lb! Anchors with (any element) front ballast, hinge, roll-bar or long, thick shank CANNOT ever set deep, they will set to a certain point and when overpowered just drag. Danforth/steel/aluminum type anchors are excellent in this aspect due to very good proportion between fluke surface/weight and a shank surface/weight. They can reach an enormous depth. The issue with Danforth is there sensitivity when a wind changes direction. Even at 15° they will get out and may never reset. The worst is when they do not get out but drag on some angle achieving only 20% of its optimal holding power.

Anchor should be capable of setting a very deep and when pull even on an impact and strong force NOT get out. Most of tested anchor would get out and may/may not reset, depending on a situation.

So don't keep us in suspense, what anchor design fulfills all these requirements? The Mantus?

[999999]

Some anchors may set ultra deep in sand; that is the only way to achieve holding power in for storm conditions. For those conditions we need an anchor that we can depend on. The issue with the all roll-bar anchors is that they do not correct its orientation during wind/pull direction change. They will also, as Danforth, get out (and may reset) when the wind changes. There is the XYZ Anchor video that is addressing those issues. Important topic is also the weight/surface proportion between a fluke/plow and other anchor elements. That plays also important role - anchor weight - holding power ratio.

[malbert73]

I disagree- many rollbar anchors can and do set deeper- look at photos of anchors setting. I know my mantus frequently sets deeper than rollbar as evidenced by length of chain with thicker mud/sand and the oyster shell/mud stuck to the TOP of the roll bar on retrieval

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by 999999

Some anchors may set ultra deep in sand; that is the only way to achieve holding power in for storm conditions. For those conditions we need an anchor that we can depend on. The issue with the all roll-bar anchors is that they do not correct its orientation during wind/pull direction change. They will also, as Danforth, get out (and may reset) when the wind changes. There is the XYZ Anchor video that is addressing those issues. Important topic is also the weight/surface proportion between a fluke/plow and other anchor elements. That plays also important role - anchor weight - holding power ratio.

I really can't help being cynical, you apparently have not watched the entire suite of video offerings from Steve, you disparage all anchors tested, you call yourself a marine service provider yet you provide no information as to your whereabouts or boat that you own. Just who do you work for?

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by 999999

... There is the XYZ Anchor video that is addressing those issues...

I've never come across this anchor but I agree it looks/sounds interesting. Maybe you should offer one to Panope Steve (the OP) to test it? Everyone on CF trusts his unbiased assessments - if you really are that sure of its qualities then you have nothing to fear.

[Uncle Bob]

Just watched the video and visited the web site, the hype and presentation sounds so similar to that of Peter Smith regarding his Rocna.

[999999]

Avery anchor with a roll-bar,*due to a fluke shape, will*pop-out/fly-out from sand when*overpowered on a sudden impact at 20° of a straight direction.*Anchor's roll-bar prevents deep setting pushing the front tip up!*

Those are mechanical/scientific facts, we should accept them*unless*we are*sentimentally*attached*or a*producer*of a roll-bar anchor.

[Jim Cate]

Those are mechanical/scientific facts, we should accept them*unless*we are*sentimentally*attached*or a*producer*of a roll-bar anchor.

Until you provide us with citations from OTHER sources, sources with no vested interest in the discussion here, those "facts" are only unsupported opinions from someone WITH a vested interest.

Many of us have had experiences that tend to discredit your postings.

Yes, roll bars do impede deep burying, but I have seen my Manson Supreme buried and out of sight in softish sand... more than once. We live at anchor, and have done so for the past 31 years. Many thousands of days and nights at anchor, in all sorts of conditions and on all sorts of bottoms. Dragging has only occurred in very soft mud substrates, and with storm force winds... and that only a couple of times. Oh... one other time on the Clarence river in flood, with measured 6 knot current and a house-sized mass of weed built on the bow and chain. Now THAT puts some load on the system, and in this case it dragged about a tenth of a mile, very slowly, until dawn when I could safely attack the weed accumulation. It was a long night! But no popping or flying out, and a very soft silt bottom with underlying rock.

Jim

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by 999999

Avery anchor with a roll-bar,*due to a fluke shape, will*pop-out/fly-out from sand when*overpowered on a sudden impact at 20° of a straight direction.*Anchor's roll-bar prevents deep setting pushing the front tip up!*

Those are mechanical/scientific facts, we should accept them*unless*we are*sentimentally*attached*or a*producer*of a roll-bar anchor.

AHH, I see, I hadn't realised that you were a mechanical scientist

[noelex 77]

The XYZ is an intriguing anchor.

As an anchor’s holding ability nearly all comes from the fluke, the XYZ design reduces the shank to a few inches and the roll bar is replaced with a small foot. This means all the anchor weight is devoted to fluke where it can do the most good.

The downside is achieving a reliable set with almost no shank and only a tiny “foot”.

In my view, the original XYZ anchor was not a great success. It was included in the large 2006 independent anchor test with the following comments:

“No matter how hard we tried we could not get the XYZ to set in any of our tests.”

There were similar reports from users:

“I ceased using the original XYZ as it was so much trouble to set. “

The anchor was also included in a 2004 Practical test. This test only looked at medium mud substrates. Unfortunately, this is such an easy substrate that almost all anchors will set. On the test, the difference in holding power was only slight between the different anchor models, nevertheless the XYZ won the test beating anchors such as the Danforth and Super Max which some would argue are specialist mud/soft substrate anchors.

The anchor has since been modified, producing the XYZ Extreme. This shares most of the unique features such as the “foot” and the minimal, almost non existent shank but with a new blade design.

I think it was this design (although there seem to be several versions, so it not clear) that was included in 2009 independent group test. It did not do so well:

“In our tests it never managed to set correctly. The maximum holding power we recorded – 790kg – should be taken with a pinch of salt because the XYZ took a very long time to set. Worse, it was nigh-on impossible for it to re-bed in the same spot when the boat swung round on her cable.”

You can read the three test reports I have referenced in full here:

https://newcontent.westmarine.com/co...chor-Tests.pdf

Practical Sailor 2006 Anchor Test - XYZ Extreme Anchor - PDF Catalogues | Documentation | Boating Brochures

https://www.georgekniest.nl/pdf/manuals/kobra.pdf

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by 999999

Avery anchor with a roll-bar,*due to a fluke shape, will*pop-out/fly-out from sand when*overpowered on a sudden impact at 20° of a straight direction.*Anchor's roll-bar prevents deep setting pushing the front tip up!*



Those are mechanical/scientific facts, we should accept them*unless*we are*sentimentally*attached*or a*producer*of a roll-bar anchor.

Or... you could refer to any amount of empiric and actual knowledge on videos/photos of anchors setting threads.

But I also know I’m responding to some trolling by someone who registered for CF a few days ago to stir the pot.