Stainless Steel Anchor Chain

[colemj]

The grade of galvanized chain won't make any difference in piling. The size will make a difference, so you can expect 10mm G70 to perform better in this manner than 12mm G30/40.

"How much" is difficult to quantitate, but I would suspect ~20-30%. Seems like if you went to a chandler and played with their chain on the floor, you could get a rough empirical feeling for it.

Mark

[CookiesnTequila]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Cookiesn, I don't mean to re-direct this thread but it sounds like you might look into re-locating your chain locker. increases.

I wish that was an option but it isn't. The windlass is installed in a well that fits it perfectly, and it sits over the deepest part of the bridge deck - in fact the bottom of the bridgedeck is designed with a bulb to create a deeper well specifically for the windlass. It's a real shame because it sure looks like there would have been room to have moved it back another foot which would probably made a big difference!

Originally Posted by colemj

The grade of galvanized chain won't make any difference in piling.'''
Mark

That is exactly what shall do! Thanks

[CookiesnTequila]

Does anyone know what is considered to be the longest time that the chain can be submersed without causing a problem? And, how long does it need to be out of the water before it can safely be submersed?

It appears that most of the past (pitting) issues with 316 SS have been overcome using Duplex SS and making sure it comes from a reputable manufacturer such as (Stainless steel anchor chain DIN 766, Marine INOX anchor chain, Duplex anchor chain, tested anchor chain, anchor chains for leisure boats and yachts).

From what I've been able to learn from the forums and literature, the only negative about Duplex SS (aside from the cost) is that it is not recommended in applications where it will be submersed in warm seawater for long periods of time (like moorings), because the lack of oxygen will eventually cause pitting.

The more I'm researching this, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that the only way to insure that I eliminate the piling/windlass jamming problem is with SS chain. Another problem is that I would really like to add more length also - I don't like having only 80 meters (260'), it is too restrictive in the anchorages we can visit!

So I think my only two options are 1) go with the g7 and figure out a simple way to knock the chain down, and never forget!, or 2) go to SS chain.

I'm guessing option 2 is going to win once I see the price difference (quotes in the works), but I do want to try to fully understand the issues with SS.

Thx

[Muckle Flugga]

Stainless is prone to crevice corrosion. If anchored in a substrate rich in metals a galvanic reaction may well lead to unnoticed internal corrosion and then one day "pop"! Chain is gone. Galvanised always "tells" you it is in bad shape when it is, and almost always looks far worse than it really is when rusted, as it rusts from the outside in, so the core is generally fine. SS is super expensive, and even the BEST SS is prone to crevice corrosion. To me it is the preserve of such as can afford to have it as a luxury "looking good" item on their superyacht, and throw it away every 3 years or so.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by tahoebyrne

I just purchased a Lagoon 410 catamaran and the surveyor noted that the anchor chain was corroded to about 50% of the original metal. The chain sits in a locker and the saltwater wash down hose was leaking on it which may explain the severe corrosion. I was thinking of replacing the 3/8" galvanized chain with stainless steel chain. Currently there is 100 feet of chain and 150' of nylon multi-stranded rode. Presumably the reason for not using all chain was to keep the weight down, the displacement is listed as 16,000 lbs. Is stainless steel chain worth considering? I plan to cruise from the Chesapeake Bay to Florida, the Bahamas, and the Caribbean over the next couple of years. Would I be better off going with all chain despite the weight?

Stainless also doesnt like immersion in sea water that is stagnant.

How long has that chain been sitting in the locker?

What type and grade of chain do you have?

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[tolly]

I'll get in to this discussion even though it's been sitting still for a couple of months, since this issue is just what I'm thinking about.

Having a cat and planning for long time cruising in warmer waters than what we have in Northern Europe, and only having 100' galv chain with150' rope, I realize I will need more.
Even though we have a well placed chain locker with good space, the chain often piles and have to get in there and rearrange, also the problem of getting mud from the chain and keeping it clean is a problem the times I want it up quickly.
To me, this points in the direction of the SS alternative.

So, after checking around for various chain suppliers, I have found a German chain factory (Ketten Wälder) that can deliver various kinds of calibrated SS chains, and their recommendation is a Cromox AISI 318LN Duplex CXA 10, Grade 60, elektropolished chain, that seem to be a good alternative...but it's not cheap...
The major difference between the AISI 316 and AISI 318 SS chains, is that the 316 is good up to appr 25 degrees C and the 318 up to appr 35 degrees C, whích outrules the 316 when sailing in warmer waters.
What's your opinions about that?

And then also the question of how much chain and how much (if?) any rope attached to it?

[Bulawayo]

We have only ever used galvanised chain. Like yourself, we did investigate stainless. Having read reports (Practical Sailors test report especially) and knowing how it can fail without warning was enough for me. Galvanised usually stretches before failing......
We have always carried 200ft of chain as well as a further 150ft of warp. Sometimes it has not been enough, but even once was a lesson. Our next chain shall be high tensile, 300ft long and again with 150ft of multiplait warp. So saying, this is dependent upon your plans. Typically, if cruising in the Med then 150 ft of chain and 100ft of warp would be adequate.
It seems that cruisers in the Pacific recommend 300ft of chain.........not that we have ever got that far but it is on our soon to go to place list.

Originally Posted by tolly

I'll get in to this discussion even though it's been sitting still for a couple of months, since this issue is just what I'm thinking about.

Having a cat and planning for long time cruising in warmer waters than what we have in Northern Europe, and only having 100' galv chain with150' rope, I realize I will need more.
Even though we have a well placed chain locker with good space, the chain often piles and have to get in there and rearrange, also the problem of getting mud from the chain and keeping it clean is a problem the times I want it up quickly.
To me, this points in the direction of the SS alternative.

So, after checking around for various chain suppliers, I have found a German chain factory (Ketten Wälder) that can deliver various kinds of calibrated SS chains, and their recommendation is a Cromox AISI 318LN Duplex CXA 10, Grade 60, elektropolished chain, that seem to be a good alternative...but it's not cheap...
The major difference between the AISI 316 and AISI 318 SS chains, is that the 316 is good up to appr 25 degrees C and the 318 up to appr 35 degrees C, whích outrules the 316 when sailing in warmer waters.
What's your opinions about that?

And then also the question of how much chain and how much (if?) any rope attached to it?

[CookiesnTequila]

After doing a ton of research on Chomolox SS chain, I would not hesitate to buy it - if I could get myself over the cost hump! We went with 100 meters (330') of 10mm Maggi g7 instead. If you read our earlier post you'll know we had a real problem with our 80meters of 12mm g4 chain piling in the locker. We should get our new chain in the next couple of weeks, so I'll let everyone know then if the smaller size made enough difference to eliminate the piling!

Also ordered a new 125# Mantus anchor. Looking forward to sleeping better this year!!

To the length question, my thoughts are you can't have too much - subject to weight and space limitations of course!! If I could get a combination rope/chain gypsy for my windlass (not available for a Lofrans Titan) I would have gone with 80 meters of chain (or even less) spliced to another 80 meters of rode. I don't understand why we don't see chain/rope combinations more - especially on catamarans where weight is at a premium!

The extra length lets you anchor in so many more places - and/or further away from the crowds in busy anchorages. 180 meters is probably more than needed, but if you have it, I bet you'd use it!

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by dick sargent

Another thought re. anchor chain. I stretched my "proof coil" galvanized anchor chain (another harrowing story) and replaced 300 feet in Panama. I shared a 600 ft off-the-shelf barrel with another cruiser. I believe the advantage of proof coil is that it's generally readily available in other countries. btw 6 other boats had to cut their chains at that time.

Very few windlass sea work with proofcoil.


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[tolly]

Cokiesn Tequila, we have about the same boat size, except yours is probably wider...and I guess lighter in weight (13 tons for us loaded, and 6m beam...an old cat).

As you say, with catamaran weight is an issue, even though 100kg extra percentwise is not so much for a heavy cat. Still, why carry extra 100kg, when I perhaps use it in less than 1 times of 10 when anchoring.
I suppose the reason for needing long chain (and rode) in the Pacific, is because most (if not all) atolls have vulcanic base and then the bottom is quite steep outside the shore line?

My idea was to have 60m chain and 100m rode (which I already have purchased), since from my experience so far from sailing the cat home from Florida in 2010, and after that anchoring around the Swedish coast, I have not so far at any time used more than 50m of chain (and rode).
Based on that and the assumtion that when anchoring in the Caribbean, mostly it will be in more shallow water than 10m. The few times we would need to anchor in deeper waters, I have the chain-rode length needed.

The only thing I'm concerned about with the rode is not chafing, but more that it occationally slips when taking up the anchor...but that could be because the one I have now it has a few years on it. And also the fact that it can get tangled in the chain, interfering the chain when getting it out...or in.

The major thing of importance when it comes to get a SS chain is the question about it possibly break without warning. Same thing goes for all SS rigging, which as I have Heard should be replaced every 10 years or so, for safety...and I know noone who has replaced their rigging even on 30-40 years old boats.
Still I haven't heard any facts about someone really loosing their SS chain by breakage...or anyone loosing the mast/rigging because of weak SS rigging break (except in sever storms or similar). The boating magazine that gave the warning about the SS chain, was that based on facts from real happenings or just from testing?
Did they use the standard AISI316 chain...what grade, where was it constructed...Far East or Europe..etc?

It is not easy to get facts instead of thoughts and Believes, since most of us are amateurs, trying to find the best answers.

[CookiesnTequila]

I will first say - I am anything but an expert!

My research lead me to believe that regular stainless is definitely a problem, but the new chomolox chain should be okay. But there are plenty of people that will tell you that is wrong! The difference with rigging is it isn't submerged in warm salt water for long periods of time! I figure I take enough risks, that I'm best off not taking ones I don't have to take! Price was a motivator also!

As for length, we are in the eastern Med - Greece & Turkey, and I used all my chain, and wished I had more, 3 or 4 times last year! Mostly because I'm not crazy about tying to shore and try to avoid it wherever possible. And, anchoring out,in deeper water lets you escape the crowds - which we also like. Anchorages are deep here. I know I will use the extra 20 meters that we will have this year!

[CookiesnTequila]

Originally Posted by tolly

Cokiesn Tequila, we have about the same boat size, except yours is probably wider...and I guess lighter in weight (13 tons for us loaded, and 6m beam...an old cat).

That seems very light! We are a fair bit beamier, at just under 8 meters. Catana claims our "light" weight is 18.5 metric tons, and the travel lift that just lifted us this past October registered about 23.

[tolly]

Originally Posted by CookiesnTequila

That seems very light! We are a fair bit beamier, at just under 8 meters. Catana claims our "light" weight is 18.5 metric tons, and the travel lift that just lifted us this past October registered about 23.

Well, that was interesting to hear (read), since I always have thought of our cat as being both heavy and slow (2 new 3 blade Gori props last summer and new sails this coming summer will make some speed difference).

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by tolly

I'll get in to this discussion even though it's been sitting still for a couple of months, since this issue is just what I'm thinking about.

Having a cat and planning for long time cruising in warmer waters than what we have in Northern Europe, and only having 100' galv chain with150' rope, I realize I will need more.
Even though we have a well placed chain locker with good space, the chain often piles and have to get in there and rearrange, also the problem of getting mud from the chain and keeping it clean is a problem the times I want it up quickly.
To me, this points in the direction of the SS alternative.

So, after checking around for various chain suppliers, I have found a German chain factory (Ketten Wälder) that can deliver various kinds of calibrated SS chains, and their recommendation is a Cromox AISI 318LN Duplex CXA 10, Grade 60, elektropolished chain, that seem to be a good alternative...but it's not cheap...
The major difference between the AISI 316 and AISI 318 SS chains, is that the 316 is good up to appr 25 degrees C and the 318 up to appr 35 degrees C, whích outrules the 316 when sailing in warmer waters.
What's your opinions about that?

And then also the question of how much chain and how much (if?) any rope attached to it?

HUH? What in the world would effect those chains at that low a temp? You must have your numbers wrong...

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

HUH? What in the world would effect those chains at that low a temp? You must have your numbers wrong...

Corrosion rates are affected by temp. even for stainless.