Sarca "Excels"

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

If you look underwater, convex plow anchors, with their long setting distances

are you suggesting that an Excel has a long setting distance? My experience is that it bites almost immediately ... at least compared to my old CQR.

[groundtackle]

Noelex, whether it's unobstructed or not that 276c has always done that, I use it for deliveries as I never trust someone else's electronics. I charge it during the day and runs on itself for the night. I have an external plug in antenna for my bunk so can watch. I turn the main plotter to sleep and save some juice. I just trust that little thing, taken me safely for many miles
That Excel isn't a Delta and does not behave like that at all. I will just assume you are just simply showing how a Delta works (or doesn't) and in no way inferring the Excel also performs the same way. One day you will get a chance to see one in action, in fact it would fit your new vessel perfectly with no complicated bow roller mods.
I am fully confident my Excel is in the ground and quickly, we have plenty of experience with them. Coming up clean sure is a bonus don't you think?
Steve, I wondered about that loose stuff, what a pain and sucks at midnight. That happened to me in the Sacramento delta with all the floating cabbage. There was 5 tons of lilly pads or whatever the stuff is. Wrapped the chain and boat in a 20 ft deep ball. It took hours to clear it all.
Chris

[groundtackle]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

are you suggesting that an Excel has a long setting distance? My experience is that it bites almost immediately ... at least compared to my old CQR.

Kelkara, I almost called you last week and should have. Spent that whole week in your area looking at boats and stuff, hoping I might run into you.
Sounds you have played with it a little, any more thoughts or comments?
Thanks for chiming in.
Chris

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by groundtackle

Kelkara, I almost called you last week and should have. Spent that whole week in your area looking at boats and stuff, hoping I might run into you.
Sounds you have played with it a little, any more thoughts or comments?
Thanks for chiming in.
Chris

It's a good job you didn't, because I'm currently in Alaska.

Since leaving at the beginning of June, I've dropped the Excel in about 50 different anchorages up the coast as far as Glacier Bay. Often in deep water (50-100ft is quite typical), and many times with as little as 3:1 scope at high tide (25ft tides really don't help) - I just don't have enough rode for 5:1 in 100ft, and often there wouldn't be 500ft of swinging room at low tide, or a practical shore tie option. I don't often have a good idea what the bottom has been like, but it has definitely varied from mud to sand to gravelly ... I have also pulled up a big kelp-ball occasionally (not quite as bad as Steve's pic, but I think it has mostly been drifting weeds). Currents at anchor are usually small, but have been over 2kts reversing. Happily I have only had two or three nights with strong winds (20kt+) testing the anchor set.

The anchor seemed to set quickly first time on every drop, and only once did it break out when backing down at 2500rpm ... but that anchorage was described in the guidebook as "medium" holding, and I only had 2.5:1 scope. It reset fine and held with more scope, and I resolved to leave early before low tide the next morning since there were surely rocks within the swing circle close to shore.

To be honest 90% of nights have been so calm, that I didn't need an anchor at all, just the weight of the chain has been enough to hold the boat in place ... but for those other 10% ... I'm very happy with my Excel ... But my only prior experience was much less extensive use of a CQR.

I'm glad I didn't get the over-size anchor, since hauling in the chain from 100ft without a windlass is enough of a workout, and with a heavier anchor I think I'd occasionally be tempted to anchor dangerously close to rocks while seeking out shallower water.

So far it's only done one bad thing ... it's put a nasty gouge in my gel-coat when the tow-rope hooked it and pulled it off the bow-roller when bouncing over a wake ... but that is really the fault of the broken engine, and my technique lashing the anchor down to the deck.

But I still have 1000 miles to go before I get home ... so it should get a lot more use yet.

[groundtackle]

Kelkara, well done on your summer, its magical up there and just gets better and better the farther north you go. I just love those long days running the ditches. As you say it dies at night and I would run during those times if facing adverse conditions.
Ding up the snout all you want, it happens. When you get home I can help you with a thin stainless guard to cover those. You form to fit and just glue it on.
Look fwd to all the stories like towing and engines too.
Cheers, Chris

[Seasaus]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

are you suggesting that an Excel has a long setting distance? My experience is that it bites almost immediately ... at least compared to my old CQR.

I don't normally comment on such things however the performance of our Sarca Ex-cel over the past 24 hours has prompted me to report that this anchor is exceptional. We are currently on the southern tip of Norway where things can get a bit rough. Over the 24 hours before we departed the anchorage the boat was subject to 30kts wind and wave action which over a 12 hour period varied from E to SW. I did expect things to get a bit uncomfortable and I set a way point where we actually dropped the anchor on a shale/clay bottom. I set the plotter to a very large scale so that I could accurately set anchor alarm and watch any increasing distance between the anchor site and the boat, which would put us closer to the rocks. We were in 16m water with a 4.5:1 rode length out. As usual the Excel bit quickly and did not budge from the first set and did not lose any ground during the 135deg wind shift, despite the wind strength and the windage of our cruising trimaran.
Last season we cruised the French north coast and this year we ventured futher north to Belgium, the Netherlands, the tricky German Islands, Denmark and Norway. We prefer to anchor rather than visit every port and I must say the the Excel, together with the Flip has never let us down during our cruising to date of 2620nm and virtually all possible bottom types.
I bought this anchor after a professional fisherman friend told us the the Excel is a very popular choice for professional boats working out of Melbourne, Australia in the southern Bass Straight where conditions can be far from pleasant.
Only when the weather really puts things to the test does one realise how important that single link to the terra firma can be; and the firma it is the less terror we experience!
I should add that there is another similar looking anchor on the market however it has the reputation for easily bending shafts.
During our travels the only anchor alarms we have experienced was due to swinging after setting a tight drag distance due to the proximity of shoreline.
Seasaus.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Seasaus.

[SailingMum]

I have dragged several times with a large Excel in less wind than I'd expect (20-30, not much fetch). On one occasion I had swum on the anchor and it was well buried prior, and the dragging was slow and even over several hours. Coral sand, but deep. My prior Rocna of similar size didn't do this ever. Perhaps something about the consistency of the particular sand, because I can see from the videos that the excel locks in fast in other sand/mud.

[Large Luke]

Our Sarca Excel set so hard and fast the first time we used it, I thought my wife was going to fly over the bow pulpit.

[Seasaus]

Originally Posted by SailingMum

I have dragged several times with a large Excel in less wind than I'd expect (20-30, not much fetch). On one occasion I had swum on the anchor and it was well buried prior, and the dragging was slow and even over several hours. Coral sand, but deep. My prior Rocna of similar size didn't do this ever. Perhaps something about the consistency of the particular sand, because I can see from the videos that the excel locks in fast in other sand/mud.

Well SailingMum, I am surprised at what you report re the Excel as your experience seems to vary 180 deg from ours which extends over 3000nm and 2 years cruising from the Atlantic coast of France to North Sea anchorages in Norway. If you established that the Excel was well buried before it dragged in 20-30 kt wind one would have to assume that the anchor was undersized for the job, to little scope out for the conditions and/or that there was insufficient chain on the rode. This would apply to almost any anchor. Also you will notice that the Rocna is similar in design to the Excel however the Rocna is well known for suffering a bent shaft. Why did you make the change from the Rocna if you were getting such good results with it?

[SailingMum]

Originally Posted by Seasaus

Well SailingMum, I am surprised at what you report re the Excel as your experience seems to vary 180 deg from ours which extends over 3000nm and 2 years cruising from the Atlantic coast of France to North Sea anchorages in Norway. If you established that the Excel was well buried before it dragged in 20-30 kt wind one would have to assume that the anchor was undersized for the job, to little scope out for the conditions and/or that there was insufficient chain on the rode. This would apply to almost any anchor. Also you will notice that the Rocna is similar in design to the Excel however the Rocna is well known for suffering a bent shaft. Why did you make the change from the Rocna if you were getting such good results with it?

The Excel was amply sized (around 150lb) and scope was plenty. I have not experienced Rocna shank bending (mine pre dated the chinese made ones), but that's not the topic here anyway is it? My Rocna was sold with my prior boat and I got an Excel because the bow did not have room for a hoop.

I'm quite willing to believe the Excel is excellent, but I had my confidence shaken several times with mine and shared the experience in case anybody could explain it. I'm glad you had better luck with holding in tropical sands during your trip to Norway.

[Seasaus]

I re read your original post and must admit I did loose your point re the possible nature of the sand.
I witnessed a similar thing in Vanuatu in the 70's; we were on a 47' mono and the plough type anchor dragged slowly over several hours. Our SCUBA diving during the afternoon revealed sand that was very light in texture. You could easily thrust your hand, up to your wrist into the sand and we figured that maybe the sand was subject to movement however the mystery was not solved. We tried 3 or 4 anchorages within the same area with the same result.
With sand of that nature I imagine that anything short of a large concrete block would not provide a satisfactory mooring point.
I think most of us can worry about that single link to the terra firma and it's good insurance to keep a close check on the reference transit during the first hour or so of placing the anchor and if the wind should develop after dark, set a small tolerance on the anchor alarm and watch for any movement. I generally enlarge the plotter image to a very large scale, place a way point immediately in front of the boat's position and, assuming the wind has a constant direction, then any movement is easily detected, independent of the alarm. But I'm sure we are all aware of these precautions.
Re choice of anchor, I think that most of us use an anchor that gives reliable results and if there is any sudden deviation then the bottom conditions may be suspect.
I can understand that your confidence is shaken after the dragging incidents however I suggest that unless you had an alternative anchor on board that proved to get a better grip on that some bottom in the same conditions, it would be very difficult to make a comparison.
If you are a bit of a nerd, such as myself and intended returning to the suspect anchorages, why not, in the interests of increasing confidence, take another anchor of choice and do some experiments.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by SailingMum

I have dragged several times with a large Excel in less wind than I'd expect (20-30, not much fetch). On one occasion I had swum on the anchor and it was well buried prior, and the dragging was slow and even over several hours. Coral sand, but deep. My prior Rocna of similar size didn't do this ever.

What you have described very well is unfortunately a not uncommon, but poorly recognised problem. It is most often seen in my experience with convex plow anchors in softer substrate . The issue often occurs if the substrate does not become much firmer with depth, which can happen with coral rubble.

The small surface area of this type of anchor together with the relatively low resistance of the convex design causes the anchor to very slowly drag backwards without setting any deeper. Because the drag is slow it often goes unnoticed by the skipper, especially if stronger wind dies away.

Underwater it quite fascinating to watch the anchor slowly inch its way backwards with each stronger gust.

Everyone can recognise the common rapid drag, but it worth keeping a look out for these slow progressive drags. They are not rare, but are often simply not recognised.

[ericoh88]

I am using a sarca excel with 290 ft chain. Several occasion I was hit with the local Sumatras, wind 30kts to 40kts while doing a 360. The anchor held its ground.

One time in St John being new to my boat and chain, unknown to me at that time I let out only 2:1 in a 70 ft water. That night had a blow and the anchor did not drag. Next morning I had difficulty in pulling up the anchor which was buried deep in mud.

I feel Sarca bites deep because I usually reverse at 3,000 rpms . Sarca is good.

[SailingMum]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

What you have described very well is unfortunately a not uncommon, but poorly recognised problem. It is most often seen in my experience with convex plow anchors in softer substrate . The issue often occurs if the substrate does not become much firmer with depth, which can happen with coral rubble.

The small surface area of this type of anchor together with the relatively low resistance of the convex design causes the anchor to very slowly drag backwards without setting any deeper. Because the drag is slow it often goes unnoticed by the skipper, especially if stronger wind dies away.

Underwater it quite fascinating to watch the anchor slowly inch its way backwards with each stronger gust.

Everyone can recognise the common rapid drag, but it worth keeping a look out for these slow progressive drags. They are not rare, but are often simply not recognised.

thanks, that rings true. another place it would slowly work back without stopping (backing down, in reverse) was in soft mud off a busy port that had been heavily anchored in. Perhaps just a bit too soupy.

i never took my old rocna to the tropics so not sure how it would have gone with coral rubble (although seriously stress tested it otherwise). What would you see working better in softer substrates?