Rigging Toggle for Anchor Connection ?

[Kettlewell]

Has anybody used a standard SS rigging toggle to connect your anchor to the chain, as is recommended by Alain Poiraud in his book The Complete Anchoring Handbook? It makes a neat looking connection, certainly has the tensile strength needed, and would probably come in over a roller more smoothly than typical anchor shackles, which always seem to hang up on the ends of the screw pins. But, I'm not sold on SS use below water, and I would think possible side loading could be a real issue. We've seen evidence of that problem with purpose-designed anchor swivels that have failed due to side loads.

The double jaw toggle on this page is what he recommends, though I think you might need a longer version.

My current set up has a screw pin anchor shackle connected to the anchor at the pin end (the hole in the anchor is round and that is the only way it will fit), and a second anchor shackle that then connects to the chain with the pin at the chain end. That joint, with all its various protrusions, frequently hangs up on the anchor roller as I retrieve it. Thoughts?

[Mark Johnson]

My observation over the years has been that using SS connectors with galvanized parts under water... invites more rust of the galvanized parts, for about 6", next to the SS. This is not extreme or a "deal Breaker" however.

What you describe above sounds a bit fiddely, and not great for a side load. With our 1/4" HT, G-4 chain, there was no 5/16" G-4 shackle available, with which to match the WL. (There is a "Crosby" 3/8" G-4 shackle, but it's pin is too large for my chain).

I could've used an ACCO "G-4" swivel with 5/16" pins, mating to the chain, and mate the above "Crosby" 3/8" G-4 shackle to the swivel, in order to attach the swivel to the anchor.

It would all fit together, and be strength compatible, but was too clunkey, and too many "hang up" parts.

I solved the problem by getting a fancy SS ball & socket swivel, with a 3/8" pin through it's truly massive forks for the anchor end, and a 3/8" pin on the other end to mate to my "custom made chain's" single oversized 3/8" G-4 link on the end. BINGO!

This "ball & socket swivel/connector is strength compatible and then some, it glides over the roller, can take a side load, and after 7 years, it's still pristine.

The down side is that it cost over $200, and causes the galvanized parts next to it to rust more than they otherwise would. A small deal!

I forgot the brand, but it is not the one that was the subject of a recent recall, it is the one about 50% stronger that the attaching chain...

Good luck with it, Mark

[Kettlewell]

Thanks Mark. I have looked at those ball connectors, but somehow I'm just not sure I would trust them, even if I wanted to spend the money. A ball and socket just seems inherently less secure than the physical connection between two shackles or the pin and the chain. The thing I have read about SS underwater is that the part can look great until one day it just snaps from some tiny crevice corrosion spot. Maybe that is a false worry? Whereas with galvanized you can pretty much see what you've got. Sure it may eventually get rusty, but as long as the thickness is there you don't have any worries.

Also, you still have that side load issue where it attaches to the anchor with the ball swivel. Crosby has an interesting fact sheet on their Web site that tells you that screw pin anchor shackles (the bow shaped ones) are designed for some side loading and are superior to other types for that. I was wondering about using the straight pin shackles (where the pin is held in with a cotter pin), but Crosby says not to use them if there is a possibility of side loads.

I should have mentioned that I have the G40 chain in 5/16 and use the Crosby alloy shackles at 3/8 that are rated at 2 tons. Frankly, I'm not too worried about even regular shackles as they have a breaking strain of 6 times the working load, so even the 1 ton units have a breaking strain very similar to the 5/8 nylon anchor rode connected to the chain.

[delmarrey]

I've tried several connectors over the years and came right back to the plain ole shackle. But I did get rid of the twisted 3 strand rode.

[Kettlewell]

delmarry: I'm usually on all chain because I have 100 feet on the main anchor at the moment, but it is backed up by 200 feet of nylon for when I need it. Frankly, if I only had 50 feet of chain on there I would often be on all chain or mostly chain because I tend to anchor in shallow spots here on the East Coast. My average anchoring depth is less than 10 feet.

[delmarrey]

I do the same. I use 60' of chain. But I believe our gunk holes over here are a bit deeper. A few times I've had to anchor next to a rock wall in 40' of water.


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[Benz]

My concern with that rigging toggle would be that the cotter pin may get damaged scraping over the sea floor and fall out, leaving the clevis pin free to fall right out. Those tiny cotter pins are designed to keep the clevis pin from working out of a tensioned setup that doesn't move around much, not from something that gets bashed about the sea floor all the time. Whatever you end up with, please be sure to inspect it frequently.
Ben

[boasun]

You should just go and use an Anchor Chain Swivel. The swivel is designed for this type of work.

[Mark Johnson]

Good points. On the anchor end... The swivel I have has wide fork walls that are over 5/8" thick, and the pin is screwed in with locktite to fill the thread void. Then it's held doubly secure with a recessed grub screw. It is therefore designed for a side load several times the strength of the chain.

It is not the design of swivel/shackle you've seen, where the socket is in two haves, trying to be prized apart by the ball. The 1" dia. shaft of the ball goes into the one piece socket, and then the forks of the ball are threaded on, and "potted", to keep seawater out.

The load bearing shaft of the ball is totally out in the open where it can be inspected, and all of the "bearing surfaces" of the ball can be inspected by swiveling it around.

The socket walls are massive, and couldn't be corroding away internally without the ball & socket fit becoming "looser".

These features are why I decided to trust it. I was led to believe that it had a perfect track record as well, in thousands of sales over the years. This wasn't my first attempt, just what ended up working for us.

I do understand your reservations however. Pretty much all of the similar products had one feature or the other that made my "alarm lights" go off. I was still pulling my anchor in hand over hand at "decision time", and ease over the roller was paramount!

If you don't need a swivel... With your chain size, you could also use a Crosby 3/8" G-4 bow shackle through the anchor, with the PIN OUT, If it fits through the anchor shank's hole, and then the side load becomes a moot point.

Anyway, I agree that ALL galvanized is the way to go if you can get it "all sussed out", as my UK friends would say... And it sounds like you have.

Mark

[Kettlewell]

You should just go and use an Anchor Chain Swivel. The swivel is designed for this type of work.

Which swivel do you mean? There are lots of different types. At one time I used a regular galvanized swivel near the anchor, but I found that it didn't really seem to make much difference on any twist in the anchor rode and it was particularly bad at hanging up on the anchor roller. (I do believe in a big galvanized swivel on a permanent swinging mooring though.)

My concern with that rigging toggle would be that the cotter pin may get damaged scraping over the sea floor and fall out,

I have the same concern with anything that doesn't use a screw pin. I have seen some anchor shackles that have a screw pin but with a flush head that takes an allen wrench. They are SS and come from Wichard and cost $$. There may be other ones on the market too. One has to use loktite on the bolt. Does anyone know if loktite holds up immersed in seawater?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

. (There is a "Crosby" 3/8" G-4 shackle, but it's pin is too large for my chain).

Dang!
I just ordered one of those as the guy taking the order left the phone to check and said the pin will go through 1/4 G4.
We shall see.

[Kettlewell]

Therapy, I'm pretty sure the Crosby alloy shackles that are high tensile don't come any smaller than 3/8". See here. I'm also pretty sure they won't fit in 1/4" chain as they are really snug in my 5/16" chain.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Which swivel do you mean? There are lots of different types. At one time I used a regular galvanized swivel near the anchor, but I found that it didn't really seem to make much difference on any twist in the anchor rode and it was particularly bad at hanging up on the anchor roller. (I do believe in a big galvanized swivel on a permanent swinging mooring though.)

This is exactly why I got rid of the 3 strand. I tried swivels. They don't work when the anchor is under load, and that's when you need it to work. Putting a band-aid on doesn't cure a disease.


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[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

. Does anyone know if loktite holds up immersed in seawater?

Yes

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[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boasun

You should just go and use an Anchor Chain Swivel. The swivel is designed for this type of work.

I use a Kong. It is truly massive (and massively expensive), but it inspires confidence. The rated side load is greater than the breaking strength of my chain.

I would be using a regular colored-pin shackle, except that (1) the correct size shackle won't fit through my bow roller; and (2) I have problems with the anchor coming up incorrectly oriented.

If you go with a swivel, I suggest that it must NOT be galvanized. They are not slippery enough to swivel freely.