Quick-link Corrosion - SNAP!

[Nicholson58]

I have a preliminary quote for the forerunner 235.00 and the kenter link 140.00 in 14mm class 2, galvanized. Rating exceeds my chain strength. I should have at least one more and internet links in a few days.

[POH]

Thanks for all the replies ...

To answer a few questions: I don't know what type of connector it was (quick or otherwise). We had only purchased the boat a few months before this event, and the remnants of the link I picked up weren't identifiable by brand.

That being said ... it would take a great deal to convince me that this type of join was worth the risk again. I'm now relying on stainless shackles to join the remaining pieces of chain (allen key types, sealed with locktite). Unfortunately, I couldn't find anyone in Grenada to weld the chain together and re-galvanize ... so may do that in Panama (any recommendations?)

[delmarrey]

You really don't want use SS for anchoring long term! >>> http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...kles-2880.html

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

You really don't want use SS for anchoring long term! >>> http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...kles-2880.html

Delmarrey, did you look closely at the chain that was used?

It was a decorative long link SS Chain used for architecture, anyone using such chain would be very silly as anchor chain it simply isn't and doesn't compare.

Good quality anchor chain whether SS or Galv Steel doesn't fail if used as intended.

[delmarrey]

Did you look at the shackle? It failed before the chain, in 3 weeks.

Originally Posted by By Invitation

All this stuff was purchased at a Marine Consignment shop and it is 316 beleive it or not. I make X-ray analyzers for alloy identification as a business and I tested these before I purchased them. The welds in the links are definetly the major weak point but they also tested as 316, could only be poor welding pratice that caused this problem. As far as the shackle is concered, there is no obvious marks or deformaties, it just plain snapped - piece of **** shackle. I will never again use stainless on my ground tackle.

[Lagoon4us]

The chain with the crap joins seems to be long link around 5/16" yet the chain on the crap shackle looks to be at least 3/8" short link.????
The lights stuff suitable for tying up a cattle dog....maybe?

Shackles off a white board in a Chandlery tend to be chinese cheapies. A 'Wichard' is a Wichard you pay for what you get.

[GMac]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Good quality anchor chain whether SS or Galv Steel doesn't fail if used as intended.

And if it's SS it's not intended to be submersed for extended periods of time. We are seeing a lot more failures and very dodgy loads with SS anchor chain in the last year or so. We think it's due to the eastern stuff flooding in cheap and the poor quality process used to make most of it. I'll find some photos of a couple of boat worth we have tested since Xmas, they will scare you.

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

I have a preliminary quote for the forerunner 235.00 and the kenter link 140.00 in 14mm class 2, galvanized. Rating exceeds my chain strength.

Class 2 is only a G30, the same as BBB is. What tricks most is they look at the elevated WLL that comes with stud in stud link chains, which the forerunner and kenter shackle are designed to be used in, so it looks way stronger than open link...... but that's only a play with numbers and doesn't exist in real life. Watch for the length i.e do you have enough room between your anchor and winch as this stuff will kill your winch if it gets into it as stud link works on very different measurements than common open link.

C Links are fine as long as you use good ones. We only use Crosby or Maggi, both have been well proven to be fine, even if they do tend to rust a smidgen sooner but then you do bash them with a hammer on fitting. NEVER use a SS one, we've tested over 2 dozen and everyone failed prematurely. Never use any with no name on them, again they are just a disaster looking for a moment to happen.

[Lagoon4us]

GMac iv'e cut and pasted a posting you did a few years ago on this forum which i believe covers most points being re-asked here.
Your explanation then, as now, was excellent so hope you don't mind....

No they aren't 1/2 the strength of the Hi Test or at least good ones aren't. The Maggi and Crosby are G30 fittings and both being made by very reputable companies will exceed the published loads by a degree.

You've fallen into the WLL comparison trick. It's very common. Sorry if I'm telling you something you already know but just explaining it for the watchers who may not.

All chains and fittings used by boats all usually have a 4:1 safety margin. By that I mean the WLL is 1/4 of the break load. The one weird exception to that is in the US with what is called 'Hi Test'. It doesn't happen out side the US or with other US grades, only that specific one in that country only. What they do with the G40 there is they lower safety margin which in turn gives an elevated WLL. The chain is still a grade 40 just as it is in the EU, NZ or Timbuktu just those places use the standard 4:1 margin so show a lower WLL.

So what happens is people compare WLL's to see the HiTest being a lot stronger when in fact it really just a smoke and mirrors game with the load numbers. One might say the great US marketing machine has struck and struck very well indeed. It also means many think they have some super chain when in fact it's far from it and they are actually inadvertently and unknowingly pushing the boundaries possibly a lot more than the boat anchored next to them.

So you are still sort of right but just a little off with your numbers. The Hi Test is only 20-25% stronger than a BBB, G30 and what 90% of the world cruisers are anchored on right now. And at the same time the same amount above the good C links. But as the good links have a non published margin on top of the published break they aren't that far away at all. We've busted Maggi ones and none have gone below 5600kg, a few have hit 6000kg. A G30 chain or fitting should have 5000kg min bust, a G40 6400kg min bust. So the Maggis C links are in the middle of the 2 grades. We have zero reason to think Crosby would be any less and in fact would expect a little higher again (just the way they make them).

So Yes the C Links are a little lower but not much at all than the Hi Test chian once you align all the safety margins using the same basis. And as most of the world cruisers are only on G30 chains without worries, I'm happy saying a good C link in a Hi Test chain is fine.

Why am I so happy saying that? There are literally 1000's of these links in use as I write. Also manufacturing has moved on and the good ones are made better than they used to be. Also 99.9% of the nay-sayers are only repeating one of the many urban myths that are rampant in the anchoring system game. Try and find someone who has actually had one fail on them, I think you'll find it easier to find an honest politician.

You'll also find many of the nay-sayers are a lot more happier with their bog standard shackle even though most of those have loads far far below a good C link. Most commercial bog standard shackles are very low load. Weird I know but as I deal in this stuff day in day out, we've seen and heard it all. Most of 'it' is usually quite wrong and based on hear-say and theories that were valid when the Pilgrims or Cpt Cook were sailing the oceans but well off the mark in todays world. It's not rocket science to find out what is and isn't good.

And all of that isn't even getting into the low quality stretch early break low chain that many have, often unknowingly.

But like all boating and most other gear these days, there is 'bloody good', 'OK' and 'just crap' out there when talking quality. The key is to know what you're buying, which I admit can be bloody tricky at times. The best advice on that I can offer is ask country of manufacture, while not fool proof it's a reasonably good guide. I think most know which countries have a long history of making good reliable products.


I so totally agree about dodgy SS being on the market, to the consumer it's so nice and shiny followed by a tendency to buy because it appears to be 'marketed' below those rascally Chandlery prices. 9 times out of 10 it works well, probably because it in reality isn't used or put to test much.

I think there are some quite sticky corrosion products that can be applied to a "steel/ungalvanised" joining link as long as that link conforms in profile to the capstan used.

Cheers Frank

[Andrew Troup]

Another reason for increasing failures with SS used as part of anchor systems is that it has become a lot more common in the last decade or so, and some of the failures are possibly demonstrating that SS does not age gracefully in such service.

I'd have to have a bloody good reason to include any SS whatsoever - even for seizing shackles, I'm thinking of doing some accelerated tests with titanium wire.

[noelex 77]

Monel wire is easy to get and seems to work well in practice.

[Lagoon4us]

Having rigged many yachts over the years you end up with a collection of 1x19 SS Wire 304#, commonly i'd keep the offcuts and cut to short lengths around 6 inches long.

I'd anneal the unravelled individual pieces and when cooled wipe them with some 600# wet + dry to remove the blackened heat mark.

These now flexible wires were used for tie wires for shackles, personally i've had moorings with such wire underwater in sulphurous mud for at least 12 months to no detriment.

I can only pass on actual experience and that i share.

I do suspect there's cheap crap substitutes out there.

Cheers

[Sheepshank]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

This is your pic, i think these are deadly as they hold salt, sand etc and corrode then fail. They don't handle chain twist very well. We have one and i'm chucking it and welding prior to galvanising. Cheers.

I will be cutting a couple of quick links off of a secondary chain soon.Didnt like the looks of them during inspection ,but now they are for sure coming off.

[Lagoon4us]

Yes they are rubbish yet so many boats have them, our chain has one at the 50metre mark, i intend removing and weld a link together then re-galv.

They are shockers! As POH found out.

[GMac]

No worries at all on the copy/paste Lagoon, it's a tad flattering to be honest.

2 photos that maybe be of interest -

This one is from some SS chain we tested for a boat. This boat is one of a few we've run into with this issue of late. This specific one was one of the worst though due to the very low loads it was failing at, the others have been more around the 2.5-3t mark, 2t below what they should for a 10mm chain. Look how much it wasn't welded and looking at the shiney metal where it failed, not much holding it together for a while by the looks. I did say it was scary.




This one shows 2 chains and a good Crosby C Link. One chain is Maggi AQUA4 made in Italy, the other is one reputed to be 'engineered in a 1st world country', which is a cunning marketing cover that really means - it's still built in Ningbo, China. No prizes if you guess which is which but one chain and the C Link are 7 years old, the other chain just 2 months short of 2 years old. A lot reading this will be on chain from the east, knowingly or not. Are you still worried about a joiner?

[Kettlewell]

Old thread revival. Assuming you wanted to use one of these good quality Crosby C-Links, what is the proper way to secure it? I would be worried about work hardening the thing with too much hammering. Do you use a hydraulic press to peen over the studs?