Photos of Anchors Setting

[colemj]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

in hard sand

Is the bottom in the picture what you are considering "hard sand"?

I call that "worm sand" (because it looks like it has a bunch of worm holes in it), and it is my favorite anchor bottom type. However, I don't consider it hard sand - just dense sand with smaller grains than beach sand.

Hard sand for me is a bottom that is on its way to being sandstone - the sand is packed very dense and hard - it is difficult to dig in it with your hand. But it isn't rock - an anchor still penetrates it. Often, there is a thin layer of silty sand on top of it.

I'm not debating any point here, just calibrating what I see in the pics with what I have experience with.

Mark

[Sulaire]

Whilst I fully understand noelex 77 anchoring his boat in the best holding areas; just as we would all choose to do in a wind like the meltemi, ( we are riding out 35kts + from the west in Mylos right now!)does anyone have any good experiences with an anchor on a bottom of sand over hard rock?

My ultra will set in anything so far apart from this for obvious reasons!

I have a large luke anchor in the bilges that would probably do the trick, but was wondering if any of the new gen models have had any success? As i would like to have a second anchor mounted on the bowsprit to use if such a situation arises. There is a fortress there now, but not up to it on hard rock.

Probably a case of asking too much really , but if anyone has had any luck , i would be interested to know?

Charlie


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[Blue Skye]

Originally Posted by SV Lift

Thanks for sharing.

Your posts look like you received this anchor in April or May of this year. According to the Mantus website all anchors shipped since last December were supposed to have HT shanks.

Why wouldn't this be a HT one / what makes you sure you have an older one?

Good question

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by SV Lift

Why wouldn't this be a HT one / what makes you sure you have an older one?

Yes, it is definitely one of the mild steel shanks, not the current stronger, high tensile shank.
The anchor was originally sent in November but one part was held up by Greek customs. The final part arrived while we were on the hard, so the first time I got a chance to use the anchor was when we launched late April.

Greg offered to send a the latest shank, but unfortunately moving around as much as do, it is difficult to nominate a suitable address.

[SV Lift]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

...
The anchor was originally sent in November but one part was held up by Greek customs. The final part arrived while we were on the hard, so the first time I got a chance to use the anchor was when we launched late April.

Greg offered to send a the latest shank, but unfortunately moving around as much as do, it is difficult to nominate a suitable address.

Thanks for clarifying. I think that does highlight a good point. Even if the company is willing to replace bent parts it could still end up being complicated and expensive logistically. I bent a Fortress in the Bahamas and since I had to pay shipping waited until I was in the US. I imagine the shipping cost of that shank will be pretty high to Greece.

To be honest even with mild steel I'm surprised it bent. You're using an oversized anchor which while increasing the holding ability doesn't make the boat any heavier. I would think the larger anchor would have a larger shank than the one rated for your size boat and therefore be harder to bend.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Sulaire

Whilst I fully understand noelex 77 anchoring his boat in the best holding areas; just as we would all choose to do in a wind like the meltemi, ( we are riding out 35kts + from the west in Mylos right now!)does anyone have any good experiences with an anchor on a bottom of sand over hard rock?

My ultra will set in anything so far apart from this for obvious reasons!

I have a large luke anchor in the bilges that would probably do the trick, but was wondering if any of the new gen models have had any success? As i would like to have a second anchor mounted on the bowsprit to use if such a situation arises. There is a fortress there now, but not up to it on hard rock.

Probably a case of asking too much really , but if anyone has had any luck , i would be interested to know?

Charlie

A thin layer of sand over rock is one of the nightmare substrates that can be encountered.

The first rule is to get upwind, or away from other boats because if there is any sort of wind a lot of boats will drag.

There are usually some patches where there are deeper spots of sand in gaps between the rocks so keep trying till you find one.

Regarding anchors, the underlying rock is often in very smooth slabs. Nothing will grip on this type of rock so all the holding is provided by the thin layer of sand. An anchor with a big fluke area especially near the tip is help. Most of the modern new generation concave anchors are about as good as you are going to get. The Bruce and the Fortress also do well. The bigger the fluke area for the weight the better. It very much helps to have an oversized anchor. I am not a great fan of Tandem anchoring but this is time where it can help.

A Luke would not be my first choice because of relatively small fluke area, but if the substrate is rock boulders rather than a smooth layer of rock with sand over the top the small flukes of the Luke can grab between the boulders and hold well.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by SV Lift

I imagine the shipping cost of that shank will be pretty high to Greece.

Mantus offer a lifetime replacement of parts including damage. I think they include free shipping with this.

However, until they get those drones working that will drop the goods to the boat in a deserted anchorage you still have to give them an address.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by bazzer

I don't think this a great anchor at all. It really overdid the bury, bent the shaft and is now pretty well useless.
I would stick to a anchor that has a good solid history of not failing, as did the Chinese Rocna and now the Mantus, and set it correctly, I'm sure there are many others that will physically do this on the bottom and not just in print.
What I see here is a anchor that should have never found its way onto a boat

Many anchors will bend when the pull becomes perpendicular to the shank. True it's a bit of a design fault that could be rectified by doubling the thickness. Mine is 22mm and has bent twice. The old one was 20mm as it was a 35kilo bugel and it bent about 20 degrees. The fisherman orientated engineering company that bent it straight said... What do you expect when you have this long shank, 20mm is not thick enough for mild steel.

I've seen a few other anchors with bent shanks where the owner said it was not hardened steel. I'm not sure I believe that. I mean, ask yourself the following question when looking at your thin shanked anchor if that's what you have.....

Do I really believe that the company made the shank this thin out of mild steel and really believed it would not bend. Because if they did, it would tend to suggest that engineers were not involved.

I think that thin shanked anchors all have hardened steel. It would not make sense not to.

20mm is about as thin as you would want to go with mild steel.

[bazzer]

Fuss, actually I have a Bugel and it's stainless steel. If a anchor, any anchor, will not easily break free from the bottom, hauling on it until it bends is not a good idea. At this stage a trip line is advisable to reverse the pull.
Neither do you want a anchor the goes so deep you need a shovel to dig it out. Neither do you want a anchor that augers it's way in when it gets a radical change of direction.
No anchor is perfect of course, but ones techniques could be improved of course. I haven't bent my 35kilo Bugel yet and I don't
Intend to. Just think of
The strain on the winch


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[Fuss]

Originally Posted by bazzer

Fuss, actually I have a Bugel and it's stainless steel. If a anchor, any anchor, will not easily break free from the bottom, hauling on it until it bends is not a good idea. At this stage a trip line is advisable to reverse the pull.
Neither do you want a anchor the goes so deep you need a shovel to dig it out. Neither do you want a anchor that augers it's way in when it gets a radical change of direction.
No anchor is perfect of course, but ones techniques could be improved of course. I haven't bent my 35kilo Bugel yet and I don't
Intend to. Just think of
The strain on the winch

I have no experience with stainless Bugels, however they should be stronger than steel ones. My steel Bugel is extremely strong in vertical pull and I don't think it is possible to bend it this way.

The way mine bent is through wind shift in 50 kts and then ending up with a side pull on the shank.



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[bazzer]

I thought that the genuine Bugel's are only in stainless. Are you sure yours is not a copy? Mine has beveled edges on either side of the flukes so any sideways pull would rotate the anchor in anything other than concrete. I do know that there are many inferior copies of not only the Bugel, but Rocna etc


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[Fuss]

Originally Posted by bazzer

I thought that the genuine Bugel's are only in stainless. Are you sure yours is not a copy? Mine has beveled edges on either side of the flukes so any sideways pull would rotate the anchor in anything other than concrete. I do know that there are many inferior copies of not only the Bugel, but Rocna etc

My understanding is that the stainless ones are germanischer lloyd certified and are part of the Wasi ground tackle system.

My two Bugels both have beveled edges and look very professionally made, however I cannot guarantee that they are not copies.
They look identical. I have seen a lot of copies. Copies tend to look simple and home made. These do not.


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[bazzer]

Mine is Lloyd's certified, well, that's what is lazer etched on the shaft.
I know nothing about metallurgy, but if mine bends along the shaft in mud sand and normal bottom types I would sell it for scrap. Anchors are way overpriced if they weren't then there would not be cheap copies. I would give yours and Nolex's to Davy Jones and get a real one.


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[Fuss]

Originally Posted by bazzer

Mine is Lloyd's certified, well, that's what is lazer etched on the shaft.
I know nothing about metallurgy, but if mine bends along the shaft in mud sand and normal bottom types I would sell it for scrap. Anchors are way overpriced if they weren't then there would not be cheap copies. I would give yours and Nolex's to Davy Jones and get a real one.

Ok, you are right that it's not good when anchors bend, my point was that many of them do when they have thin shanks. In order that we do not create to much thread drift we should leave it at that.
Stainless in seawater is also not without its problems , a Lloyds certificate does not make this problem go away.

What is good about this thread is these real world photos in different conditions, so it's good when we keep the thread generally on its subject.


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[Tayana42]

Noelex, once again thank you for the unbiased real world experience with your anchors. Wonderful information. Wonderful photos.


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