Nylon Rode with Chain Leader vs Windlass Drum

[deano]

After replacing old gypsy/drum windlass with same type, I'm replacing the ground tackle. My boat's tech support confirms my old gear was the original equipment for 2nd anchor: nylon rode spliced to 20 ft chain shackled to anchor. This was aligned to the drum side of the windlass. (gypsy side has all-chain).

The new windlass specifically says to avoid wrapping chain around the drum, which appears sensible.

Should I go with all rode on the drum side? Or will a short length of chain on my seldom-used backup anchor work on the drum?

Voices of experience appreciated

[Vasco]

Make sure you have some chain on the secondary. Wrapping chain on the drum may mar it a bit but it's not critical.

[delmarrey]

Some horizontal windlass can adapt a gypsy to both sides. If you have a double anchor bow roller, that might be something to consider. Some gypsy's can grip nylon rode as well.

[osirissail]

It is very rare that anybody uses "all" nylon on an anchor rode. A short leader of chain between the actual anchor and the nylon part of the rode serves two important purposes. First, the weight of the chain helps keep the anchor shank down on the surface of the sea bottom so that when you "set" the anchor it is being pulled parallel with the sea bottom. Secondly, there are a lot of nasty sharp things on the sea bottom and dragging a nylon rode over them is not a great idea. The chain is "tougher" and can take the sharp coral, rock, debris and not fray or get cut.
- - Depending upon the actual windlass style it is sometimes possible to transfer that last section of nylon/chain from the drum to the gypsy. But if not, as other say it will not excessively harm the windlass, but there is a problem of slippage as chain does not "grab" the drum very well.

[Jon Hacking]

Osiris put it well - You want some chain on your anchor (I'd say at least a boat-length). I suspect the mfg warning is more about cosmetics & that the chain may slip more easily on the drum. Chain vs. Rope is one of the things I duscuss on our Anchors page, which you might find interesting &/or useful.

[s/v Moondancer]

That is a big boat not to have all chain and you need to have at least 20 ft of chain on any rode.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

That is a big boat not to have all chain and you need to have at least 20 ft of chain on any rode.

I'd like to endorse the advice from Moondancer: boats that size can easily carry all chain rodes and thus it'd be wise to go that way. You'll always sleep easier in any conditions with all chain down there. Never have an all nylon rode; you won't get your anchor to set right. Also, nylon can easily wrap around your keel during tide turns; well, I don't know about 'easily' but I've done it - once.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by deano

After replacing old gypsy/drum windlass with same type, I'm replacing the ground tackle. My boat's tech support confirms my old gear was the original equipment for 2nd anchor: nylon rode spliced to 20 ft chain shackled to anchor. This was aligned to the drum side of the windlass. (gypsy side has all-chain).. . .
Voices of experience appreciated

Folks - he talking about his secondary anchor which is rigged to use the drum side of the windlass . . . .

[deano]

So has anybody retracted a sorta-heavy anchor on chain with a drum? Aside from the cosmetics I am curious if it pulls or slips, before committing to the install and finding out it doesn't work. Didn't see definitive successful drum cushion technique in other threads. I never had occasion to try it with my original gear, figured oem did it that way for a reason, didn't question until reading new windlass manual. Obviously all chain on both sides is superior for holding and durability. And yet, there is my drum/nylon rode/chain setup, defying me to understand. Thanks for all comments and interest!

[Wand]

Originally Posted by deano

Obviously all chain on both sides is superior for holding and durability. And yet, there is my drum/nylon rode/chain setup, defying me to understand. Thanks for all comments and interest!

Can't help with the chain on drum query, and orisisail is right that I did originally misread ... but FWIW I'd go for all chain on both anchors and just ignore the drum side. There may come a time when your secondary anchor will need to become your primary - the redundancy principle. There may also come a time when for some reason you'll need a rope winch near the bow and that's when the drum will earn its passage.

[Vasco]

Done it quite a few times on charter boats. You have to keep a good pull on the chain to make it work. If you ease off the drum will turn without lifting any chain.

[osirissail]

Retrieving chain using the windlass drum can be done, but it will make marks in the drum. The procedure is to use extra wraps around the drum and as mentioned by Vasco, keep tension on the chain.
- - Whenever I have to use a stern anchor it usually really digs into the bottom and retrieving it by hand is not possible. Also the windlass is up on the bow and the stern anchor is strung out aft. So I end up putting the nylon on a primary winch and grinding it in until I get to the last 50 feet which is chain. I have to put extra wraps on the winch drum and manually tail the chain - but the power of the winch will pull the stern anchor out of the mud. Normally in such circumstances I am in tight quarters so need to keep the boat pretty much where it is by continuing to use the bow anchor(s). So reversing the boat is not an option.
- - Weight is the primary reason to use nylon on the secondary bow anchor. Sailboats don't sail to well when the bow is pointing into the water and the stern is almost out of the water because of too much weight in chain/anchors. A secondary reason is to be able to use the "stretch" of nylon to act as a shock absorber versus chain's habit of snapping tight and ripping out or dislodging the anchor. Also you may need to escape reasonably quickly and "cut loose" the primary anchor which is firmly stuck on something on the bottom - having the secondary anchor available can "save the day."
- - Which brings up the never mentioned need to be sure that the bitter end of whatever you are using for anchor rode is attached to the boat so that it can be cut loose quickly if needed.

[Wand]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Weight is the primary reason to use nylon on the secondary bow anchor. Sailboats don't sail to well when the bow is pointing into the water and the stern is almost out of the water because of too much weight in chain/anchors. A secondary reason is to be able to use the "stretch" of nylon to act as a shock absorber versus chain's habit of snapping tight and ripping out or dislodging the anchor.

Yes that's true; weight is an issue with all chain rodes so you have to stow them intelligently - feeding them further aft is the usual approach if a problem arises. But on a 42 footer? I'm not familiar with that boat nor with plastic boats in general but I'd imagine it would have to be at least 12 tonnes, so it'd take a lot of chain to drop the bow into the water. I ageee the stretch of nylon is needed but that is why all chain rodes must be deployed with snubbers.

[osirissail]

Actually on my near 60ft sailboat, I installed 400 ft of 3/8" chain in the bow chain lockers. 200 ft for each anchor. We launched the boat and motored it over to the seawall to finish up getting it ready to go. I was wondering why the folks watching were all snickering or laughing until we tied up and my friend said - "never seen a boat with its bow so deep in the water that the under-stern was visible."
- - That was when I moved the second 200 ft off the bow and into the stern lazarette and replaced it with 400 ft of nylon with a 50ft chain leader.
- - Snubbers for an all chain rode are a standard way of reducing chain "snap." But when a real blow comes they break or stretch to maximum and then break. Or in the case of the rubber ones, after a year or less they break due to UV degradation.
- - If the boat only has space for one anchor on the bow (not a good idea if you want to really cruise the world) then an all-chain rode is the best way to go if you have a windlass. If no windlass, then nylon with a chain leader helps prolong the time you will be cruising without ending up with a bad back or worn out arms.

[gettinthere]

I asked this a while back:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...rum-19920.html

HyLyte had an interesting idea. I haven't actually tried anything yet but I do need to take a look at an effective setup.