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Old 14-04-2017, 18:46   #61
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Is a rock slot really more effective & useful than sliding a metal ring, or loop of cable, attached to another line down the rode of a fouled anchor, & using that to free it? A bit more convenient perhaps, assuming that it works. But otherwise does it have any real world benefits? You'd think more anchors would have them if they were that effective. Or that fouling in rock or coral was that common.
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Old 14-04-2017, 19:07   #62
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

This is the best thread on anchors in a long time. The slot would not seem to be a problem if there is proper rode out and laying on the bottom. The only thing wrong here is that Mr B says he won't make me one But I can't blame him. If he becomes an anchor mogul he will be stuck managing his money, not out cruising.
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Old 14-04-2017, 20:51   #63
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

But it does not look as polished (in at least two senses) as some. This would offend people who have boats that never leave their marina (Marina del Rey, California has many examples). Probably works as well as most, and find many happy users somewhat to the "north" of there (actually more west). Goodo for you!
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Old 14-04-2017, 21:17   #64
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

I just read the, Old boat, New anchor thread,
65 Lb anchor he is putting on his boat, Its over kill for a boat that size,
Very few naysayers and haters on that thread, Very strange I thought,
I do have a lot of them on here, Key board warriors,
But I also have a good few with sound advice, Which is good also, I do listen to these people,


So what is 32 Kgs in Lbs, Its 70 Lbs, Thats what my new anchor weighs,

My boat is 34 feet long and weighs 4.5 Ton, With a 70 Lb anchor, and 150 feet of chain rode, Minimum.
Its a new era anchor, Based on the best brands that do work, With a few extra Doo Dahs to suit me,
I do like the slot in it, Thats why its there,

Maximum depth I usually park in is less than 20 feet, I pull 2 feet of draught,
I can park it on a sandy beach with the tide out, Its been beefed up to do precisely that,
So I dont need an anchor,
I can tie the boat to a tree, Just as a precaution, But its not needed in that situation,

Western Port and Port Phillip are two of the most dangerous bays in the world, I have extensive experience anchoring in Port Phillip Bay,
The current runs at 8 knots in Western Port Bay, At the heads,
The Rip tide is very fast, I have never been thru it, So I dont know, But it is best to go thru there at full or low tide,
Both connect to Bass Straight, where even the Princess of Tasmania stops running on bad days, Ive seen video's of it coming thru the Rip like a cork, God help the people on board in that situation, Bring out the vomit bags,
The Tasman sea and Southern Ocean is only 100 Kays approx away from where my boat is currently sitting, The other way in Bass Straight, The Southern ocean Is approx 200 kays away,
I am going to the Kimberlys in my boat, That has a 30 foot tide, and a 12 feet wall of water on the tide changes going in and coming out,
And its full of very large Crocodiles,

Im happy with my new anchor, and thats all that matters, Once I have proven it to work extensively, Then I will be even more happy with it,
The next test when it comes back from the galvanisers, I will tow it thru the long grass to see what happens, Thats just dirt under the grass,
If it dont dig in, I will change it till it does,

Sitting on the Maroochy river waiting for the tide to come back in,
The second one, I was waiting for a Drive Universal joint to fix my boat, It sat on the slipway for a week like that, I needed the motor going to get down the river from Bundaberg to the Ocean, About 13 Kays or so,
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Old 14-04-2017, 21:53   #65
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

I had a neighbor who ran a bakery their whole life. Amazing stuff, impressive, praiseworthy technical and artistic achievements. But they didn't wake up one day and declare themself a chemist.
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Old 14-04-2017, 22:51   #66
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Just a question? How many times has anyone seen a tide change cause the boat to go directly over the anchor? Maybe with a slack tide and no wind.
As you have suggested, this is rare, but it is not uncommon for the anchor chain to have a component of pull towards the head of the anchor.

With a rock slot there is a risk that the chain attachment point will slide towards the head of the anchor when this occurs.

With a conventional anchor attachment the anchor will typically (if it is a good model) rotate or "shuffle" around. This keeps the fluke buried and engaged with the substrate. Importantly, the anchor retains significant grip and, other than rotating, does not move.

If you look at my Mantus anchor in this photo you can see that if a rock slot had been used there is a risk the attachment point could slide up the slot. If this occurs it is likely the anchor will break out and have to reset rather than more reliably "shuffle", where the anchor retains grip throughout the rotation.




Even a rotation of not much more than 90 creates a force pulling the anchor chain towards the head of the anchor away from the correct attachment point. There is a risk of the chain attachment point sliding towards the head of the anchor, even with a modest rotation, if a rock slot is used.

This is a photo of an Ultra with little more than a 90 rotation in the direction of force, but there is already a risk that the chain would slide towards the head of the anchor if a rock slot was used.



My advice would be to avoid using a "rock slot" if anchoring overnight. I would suggest forming a dedicated attachment point on the shank similar to the Manson Supreme or using a system similar to the Manson Boss, which uses a patented slot of two different diameters allowing a bolt to be used to block off the rock slot so it cannot slip. In my view, a simple bolt relying on a friction fit to block off the slot is not satisfactory. In some situations, such as shown in the first photo, there is a considerable force pulling the rode towards the head of the anchor.

You can see I am not a great fan of using a rock slot for overnight anchoring.
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Old 14-04-2017, 23:54   #67
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Only one way to find out,but I'd be reluctant to trust it to hold my one major asset. My home. Good luck.
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Old 15-04-2017, 01:59   #68
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Mr B has in his favour that this anchor is really big for his boat size. That alone will overcome many design flaws. Mr B has going against him that he seems to believe that towing an anchor behind a vehicle is a good simulation of anchoring a yacht. I do not believe this to be true, FWIW. Finally, ignoring the advice of the two chaps here on CF who have invested countless hours in observing anchors in actual use seems a bad idea. That expertise trumps (I hate using that term these days) his intuitive "engineering" in my view.

But it is his boat and his life at risk, not mine and not any of the other pundits of the internet, so best of luck to you, Brian.

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Old 15-04-2017, 08:55   #69
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Mr B has in his favour that this anchor is really big for his boat size. That alone will overcome many design flaws. Mr B has going against him that he seems to believe that towing an anchor behind a vehicle is a good simulation of anchoring a yacht. I do not believe this to be true, FWIW. Finally, ignoring the advice of the two chaps here on CF who have invested countless hours in observing anchors in actual use seems a bad idea. That expertise trumps (I hate using that term these days) his intuitive "engineering" in my view.

But it is his boat and his life at risk, not mine and not any of the other pundits of the internet, so best of luck to you, Brian.

Jim
A beach pull has been a valid way to test anchors for a long time now. However, Mr B has already stated that he intends to test the anchor in the water after his boat is splashed. I think the only advice he's ignoring is from those that think that if you don't buy it it can't work.

Bottom line, anytime anyone anchors it's an anchor test.

http://rocna.cmpgroup.net/sites/defa...ym_testing.pdf
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Old 16-04-2017, 00:15   #70
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Mr B has in his favour that this anchor is really big for his boat size. That alone will overcome many design flaws. Mr B has going against him that he seems to believe that towing an anchor behind a vehicle is a good simulation of anchoring a yacht. I do not believe this to be true, FWIW. Finally, ignoring the advice of the two chaps here on CF who have invested countless hours in observing anchors in actual use seems a bad idea. That expertise trumps (I hate using that term these days) his intuitive "engineering" in my view.

But it is his boat and his life at risk, not mine and not any of the other pundits of the internet, so best of luck to you, Brian.

Jim
Sarca, Manson and Rocna all tested theirs and others behind vehicles,
One had a winch drum setup, Another had a truck,
All on the beach, Not underwater,


So my towing my anchor behind an AWD Jeep is not a valid test, I can see the logic in that statement, Duhhh,

If it wont dig in on land, There is no point testing it in water, It still wont work,
But I do like your theory, Hahahahaha

I didnt disregard the words or advice on the TWO CHAPS on here that spent many hours testing theirs,
There were many others that I listened too, Before I even started on mine,
, So dont try to put words in my mouth,
Thats what you said, Not me,

You have no Engineering skills, Capabilitys. Knowledge or Equiptment to make any thing with in Steel,
So your suddenly a Professional Expert in Steel, Its Propertys and Manufacturing of same,
If you wanted a new anchor, You have to trust the people on here or other Forums to decide what you need or want,

Do you know the difference and Strengths of the different materials anchors are made from,
Stainless Steel, Mild steel, Bisalloy, Hi Carbon, Low Carbon, Titanium, Cast Iron, Forged or Welded, Aluminium, Galvanised, That shiny stuff they cover anchors in,
What metal is actually under that Galvanising, Other than Metal, Hahahaha

Best of luck with that, Your going to need it,
You probably have a Claw anchor and swear by it,

So if you want to pick **** out of me or my Extensive Engineering background, Which was all Practical, That stuff they call. Hands On,

I am not a Paper or Theoretical Engineer, Or Intuitive, (Guessing) As you so suggest or infer,

Please use a bit of intelligent knowledge and Facts before doing so, Thanks,

Have a nice Day,
Cheers Brian,
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Old 16-04-2017, 00:49   #71
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

My two old anchors which I am replacing, They came with the boat,

The Claw, Made in China, Is as usefull as throwing the chain out with nothing on it,
I not once got it too set, After many tries,

The Danforth, Which is called a Fortress in the USA, Gets rocks stuck in the cleavis pin when the tide changes and wont reset,
It is a good anchor other than that,
But I want to sleep peacefully at night thru wind and tide changes,

Its bent like that because it was doing its job untill it let go and allowed me to be thrown up on the beach in a violent storm I was Hiding from in a secluded Inlet.
Protected from the storm from the North west but open directly to the south,
Wind changed 180 and I copped it,
I will straighten it out and take it as a second anchor,

One other thing I dont remember saying, Is that once my boat is finished and I set sail,
I will be living on my boat on the pick full time for about two years,

So I need a reliable and safe Anchor for this, I believe I have made one, But still a lot of testing to be done in real conditions before I Personally rely on it,

Around Australia is 12,000 Miles, Plus all the rivers and Inlets I go up on the way,

The advantages of a Cat, I can drive it to the beach, Step straight onto the beach with out getting my feet wet, Walk across the road to Supermarkets and Servo's for diesel,
Two feet of water is still only to my knees, If I cant get right on the beach,
Two feet Draught is magic,
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Old 16-04-2017, 00:58   #72
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

It also took me Five long years to get my Degree and Tradesmans Certificate,

My Qualifications are on Paper and they are real,
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Old 16-04-2017, 01:17   #73
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
Sarca, Manson and Rocna all tested theirs and others behind vehicles,
One had a winch drum setup, Another had a truck,
All on the beach, Not underwater,


So my towing my anchor behind an AWD Jeep is not a valid test, I can see the logic in that statement, Duhhh,

If it wont dig in on land, There is no point testing it in water, It still wont work,
But I do like your theory, Hahahahaha

But digging in on the beach does not prove that it will set and reset in the seabed.

I didnt disregard the words or advice on the TWO CHAPS on here that spent many hours testing theirs,
There were many others that I listened too, Before I even started on mine,
, So dont try to put words in my mouth,
Thats what you said, Not me,

But, they both suggested that the slot was a bad idea... you choose to disagree.



You have no Engineering skills, Capabilitys. Knowledge or Equiptment to make any thing with in Steel,

Well, some years ago I designed and built from scratch world record holding drag racing cars... out of steel tubing. You ever do that? And I built a few Danforth type anchors along the way while learning about sailing

So your suddenly a Professional Expert in Steel, Its Propertys and Manufacturing of same,

Brian, I haven't questioned your fabrication or knowledge of steel... just the design of the anchor. And in fact, it may prove to be excellent... but your evidence so far is not convincing.

If you wanted a new anchor, You have to trust the people on here or other Forums to decide what you need or want,

No, I've been buying anchors on my own for years, long before CF appeared.

Do you know the difference and Strengths of the different materials anchors are made from,
Stainless Steel, Mild steel, Bisalloy, Hi Carbon, Low Carbon, Titanium, Cast Iron, Forged or Welded, Aluminium, Galvanised, That shiny stuff they cover anchors in,

Well, yes, I do.


What metal is actually under that Galvanising, Other than Metal, Hahahaha

Best of luck with that, Your going to need it,
You probably have a Claw anchor and swear by it,

Nope, no claw anchors on this boat or any other boat I've owned.

So if you want to pick **** out of me or my Extensive Engineering background, Which was all Practical, That stuff they call. Hands On,

I am not a Paper or Theoretical Engineer, Or Intuitive, (Guessing) As you so suggest or infer,

Please use a bit of intelligent knowledge and Facts before doing so, Thanks,

I do my best, Brian, and you're welcome

Have a nice Day,
Cheers Brian,
My, but we're excitable today!

Some comments in red above...

And again, please note that I'm not doubting your fabrication skills, for they look very good.

Jim
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Old 16-04-2017, 06:32   #74
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

I was watching some of Panope's anchor tests & noted that after a direction change the Manson Supreme didn't reset about 40% of the time. I'm one of the Dinosaurs that still uses a real CQR and if you listen to the "experts" I should have lost my boat years ago. However, I anchor a lot & once the CQR is set well it has always held well, even after a change in direction which happens pretty much every night here. I dive to the anchor often to check it out & it's clear that, instead of pulling out & then having to reset, it stays set when the direction changes . I think that this is what you want an anchor to do & that's why I have a problem with a slot. It's basically designed to pull the anchor out with a 180 degree wind or tide change & then you have to hope it will reset on it's own, often while you're asleep. For me that's a scary thought.
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Old 16-04-2017, 07:55   #75
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Awesome anchor. I will do one as well. I am not an engineer, I will have it laser cut. Then welded at an engineering shop. As I understand it, that slot on top should be longer and more forward up to the ring?
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