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Old 02-06-2008, 20:06   #46
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Okay, this is a bit of a ressurection of this topic, and a bit of a drift from the insurance thread, but I think it fits with the spirit of the topic.

I'm a couple of days into my first hurricane season in Florida as a boat owner and it's really just now hit me. I need to get something set up to use in case of a hurricane. My current plan is to try to find a place to spiderweb myself somewhere up a nearby river or creek, but in case that isn't possible, I need an anchor or mooring plan and I don't think my 15 pound danforth is going to cut it.

my original plan was to try to set up a 3 anchor mooring. I might still go that route, however, I was thinking, would just getting a HUGE single anchor suffice?

I was looking at the 66 lb claw anchors offered by West marine, either the "Manta" or the Horizon". any suggestions on this idea? 66lbs should be enough for a 20 foot boat in most conditions I can imagine. We're talking a mud/sand bottom. Obviously I'd but out all the anchors I can during bad conditions, but I was thinking just leaving the claw anchor out as a semi-permanent mooring.

any ideas/suggestions?
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Old 02-06-2008, 21:32   #47
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Great discussion.

I picked up a book a couple years ago called "Storm Ready" By Richard Winer. Packed with ideas.

The one idea that came to mind about the web in a canal, I remembered from it... was using a a massive kellet on each rode. The storm surge would force the boat to pick up a couple hundred pounds off the bottom hung from each line. They also add to the catenary of an all chain rode...

Don't know how to size them...

What scares me with one attachment point is having the cleat/sampson post rip out of the deck. I've had 2 cleats rip out on 2 different boats... Sure would be a doozie if they were the only ones that counted! Or if the swivel pops...
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Old 03-06-2008, 21:39   #48
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Zach...I think kellets are pretty useless in a hurricane. Once the chain rode is bar straight, which it will be continuously in hurricane force, any effect of the kellet is completely gone. There is NO catenary in a hurricane so you need to get a nice long snubbing set up to reduce the impact on the boat and the severity of the jerking action on anchor.
Spiderwebbing into canals or mangroves is an excellent approach and I saw several boats survive Cat5 winds in Ivan by tucking up in the mangroves. Only 15% of the boats in a very protected harbor survived at anchor, regardless of their preparation...though all did well up to cat3. The mangroves give much better odds.
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Old 05-06-2008, 02:38   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoonerdog View Post
Make sure that all points connecting the central swivel and to the shore are chain rope splice, and use the splice where the rode is weaved into the chain (very similar to a rope to rope splice) as it distributes the tension on the chain without sharp bends that you would have with a typical anchor chain splice where you put the rode through the chain only on the last link and then splice the rode back on itself.
Damn good call there Schooner apart from the splice comment. Your suggestion is far more prone to failure than the back splice especially during high load cyclic action in the chain. The chain is very capable of cutting the rope through and bloody quickly as well. In one run we did it took less than 10 mins to cut a 3/4" rope to shreds and complete failure. We have seen it happen on many occasions.

Same applies to use on a anchor winch as well but it usually breaks the winch first.
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Old 05-06-2008, 04:12   #50
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Bumper boats

One possible solution for protecting yourself from other break away boats (in a canal) is to have made some very heavy duty inflatable sausage fenders (made of hypalon type material …inflatable boat tube) about 24-36” in diameter and a number of them to cover both sides of your boat.

Lash them to very strong points on deck and run webbing under the keel to tension very tightly as a downhaul and “voila” you have a boat that anything can bounce off with minimal damage.

The ones I have used are designed to be run over by a tank without damage.
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Old 05-06-2008, 05:00   #51
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That's a good idea.
As the weather packs up go pinch the tubes off a couple of RIBs and warp them around your boat. It's not like they'll be using them
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Old 05-06-2008, 08:37   #52
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In a rope chain splice the three stand is woven into the chain links, in a back splice, it's woven only through the first link and then is turned 180 degrees back upon itself. The woven splice reduces the bend angle and utilizes far more of the links. The chain/rode splice where you use a back splice uses only one link and increases the bend angle which would reduce the strength of the rode. I'm not sure how putting everything through one link would be better. The long or plaited bend is used by many specifically for ground tackle, while the back bend was found to be easier on the windless by some. I've done both, I use a back bend for anchoring and a plaited or long splice for ground tackle (dock lines where the chain wraps around the piling which dual purpose as ground tack should I need to go to a hurricane hole). I've seen no hint of wear or slack after a couple years of use yet but would like to hear about your experience. I do know that the long splice you have to be very careful and make sure there is absolutely no slack, really tightening it up at each link to make it absolutely tight. I redid my first four long splices as I didn't like the look of them after I finished. If you have some slack it would make sense that a rusty chain could start sawing it's way through while a back splace is easier to ensure it's tight. But a well made long splice should be a stronger bend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
Damn good call there Schooner apart from the splice comment. Your suggestion is far more prone to failure than the back splice especially during high load cyclic action in the chain. The chain is very capable of cutting the rope through and bloody quickly as well. In one run we did it took less than 10 mins to cut a 3/4" rope to shreds and complete failure. We have seen it happen on many occasions.

Same applies to use on a anchor winch as well but it usually breaks the winch first.
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Old 05-06-2008, 08:52   #53
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Earlier a comment was made about the realtive safety behind a barrier island. I copied my previous post here. ALL damage was MILES behind barrier islands.

Ladies and gentlemen, if you have not set through a cat 3-4 hurricane, no matter what you are underestimating its force and the accompanying storm surge!!! I have lived in Florida for years and went through several cat 1 and 2s. Cat 4s are a whole different animal. Start the storm surge at 20 feet and move it north from there. I am not trying to sound rude, just trying educate everyone on what a major storm will do. Across a barrier island and 6 miles inland the storm surge took the Interstate 10 Bridge.

For those that think they can ride out a major hurricane in a marina, look at the images on this page. This is the Palafox Marina in Pensacola after Ivan. it is on the northern edge of the bay 3-4 miles from the gulf and across a barrier island. Additionally, this marina is behind a sea wall. The storm surge was so great it floated the piers over the top of the pilings (approx 8-12 feet) and then everything went loose. All the boats in the image at the end of the marina, started moored at the opposite end. A small boat in this marina is a 30 footer. Complete destruction. It took divers to find the boats that sank you can't see.

And for those that want to move up into a creek: The I-10 highway bridge had sections floated off their pilings (15 feet over the water normally) several miles up from the bay, and even farther from the gulf.

Put your boat on the hard, tie it down to concrete, and worry about your family and home.

I friend of mine who sat through Hurricane Andrew in Homestead told me sitting through a major hurricane will let you know how much of a man you are and where your manhood runs out. Now I have been there, done that and I know now what he meant.

mservers dot net slash ivan/palafox dot htm
Hurricane Ivan hits Palafox Marina* in Pensacola


Sorry to ramble, just trying to let others benefit from my experience.
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Old 05-06-2008, 09:29   #54
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I just re-read all the posts and realized one thing. Anyone who has been through a cat 3-5 is advising of the dangers of the winds and the surge. Others who haven't experienced it are "rationalizing" why they think their boat will be safe or, gawd forbid, they might stay on it.

There was comment made about trusting the roofs more than other boaters. There won't be any roofs left!!! Research it if you don't believe me.

People: secure your boat as best you can and;

GET YOUR FAMILY SOMEWHERE SAFE!!!!
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:56   #55
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From the first hurricane I stayed on board and then fought it all night long, dragging anchor, motoring up and resetting anchors as best I could, trying to get in a dingy tied to the transom of the boat and having it flying in the air before I even released it from the boat and then putting the motor in full reverse simply to stop the going forward at suicidal speeds. Second time I used ground tackle around trees, secured to a mooring bridle and stayed on it long enough to make sure people didn't do anything stupid around me in terms of anchoring (like a river barge wanting to drive pilings down in the hurricane hole right in my swing zone) and then evacuated to high ground. I can tell you from first hand experience that after 36 hours of fighting it tooth and nail your energy runs out and you simply have to leave. I can also say you should evacuate from the marina as soon as you think it might be coming your way, before anyone else does. Get somewhere removed and tight with high hills surrounding and no one else can tuck up. Marina's will become graveyards and those late to the party will be stuck out in the open. Also forget about trying to get hauled out in time if you don't have a lift and an existing agreement at your marina. Once the hurricane becomes likely, the marina yards will be booked solid trying to get boats up on blocks. Again, be first in line. Prepare all of your ground tackle ahead of time, all of the marine stores become quickly sold out of swivels, shackles, line and fenders. Finally, try to pick an anchoring spot place next to a park, school, church, graveyard or golfcourse. You want a place which has parking close by so you can coordinate logistics easily both in preparation and in the aftermath.
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Old 05-06-2008, 11:41   #56
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I'm with Markel American through USAA (though I am sure you can access them seperately). In the Chesapeake, it's about $550/yr. for my 1978 Tayana cutter.

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Old 05-06-2008, 17:48   #57
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The chain/rode splice where you use a back splice uses only one link and increases the bend angle which would reduce the strength of the rode. I'm not sure how putting everything through one link would be better.
While I accept GMac's advice on this without question, given his experience, I did wonder the same.

A quick look around rope manufacturer's sites (eg Samson, Yale, etc) shows they all seem to recommend a back splice and sometimes comment that this is the least chafe method. But I did not find anything authorative (GordMay to the rescue here, perhaps ) from a quick look as to why that was the least chafe method. I suspect the difficulty with splicing with the strands along the chain is chafe from the working of the links but that is just a guess - would be interested in the well informed reason.
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Old 06-06-2008, 00:38   #58
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Pretty much just as you guess ML1. Rather than thread drift, PM heading at ya.
Not wanting to appear too cocky but many rope and winch manufacturers adopted a splice used by the first winch manufacturer to use it in vengeance. It is us who do all their stuff hence we have been at it many years longer than most and have learnt lots including the pitfalls.
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:53   #59
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IMHO this thread would be more informative if only boat owners who have weathered a hurricane or two..or three, posted their solutions. Opinions from the armchair guys are great, but I'm wondering how people in the hurricane zones feel about opinions when their boat is at stake.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:42   #60
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