Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-11-2009, 20:38   #76
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,659
I've also seen them, all were on boats already, but sorry don't know where to aim you. I'd have a suspicion most were custom made as they all were a little different than each other.

Be easy to make if you could score a wildcat cheap.
__________________

GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 21:32   #77
Do or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,298
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkleins View Post
s/v Jedi, where did you get the G7 galvanized chain? You mentioned in one thread you ordered it from the company and I can't seem to find it in any of the literature. Was it something you had to special order? Did you have to have a special wildcat for it or did Maxwell have one that fit it? I like the idea of stronger, smaller and lighter chain so I can carry more of it and wanted to look at all the options.

Thanks,
Jim
I ordered it from Marine Warehouse in Miami (and they got it direct from ACCO chain) and yes it was special order because of my requirement for bigger end-links (you need those to match the shackle WLL) and hot-dip galvanizing. This chain is normally not galvanized. But... I saw it in a West Marine catalog galvanized so I guess it's easier now. You still need special order for the bigger end links. I paid way less than half the WM price but that was in 2004...

cheers,
Nick.
__________________

s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2009, 21:51   #78
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,659
If I remember correctly Acco won't put on enlarged end links anymore and will suggest you use a big tested shackle.

But no harm in asking, you just never know.

And while it may appear that way, No I'm not stalking you Jedi. I just seem to be a few minutes behind you on the same path Like to catch up for a beer and a chat with you one day. Be very interesting I'd expect.
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 18:12   #79
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
I just got onto a large chain manufacturer in Australia about some chain lengths with the large link ends.

The quote?
Quote:
10mm SL Grade L Galv Chain with End Links Each End $770.00 Each + GST (for 50m)

They assured me that this was the correct price.

I can get exactly the same chain (and they confirmed this) through a reseller for less than $400, but without the 2 extra links of chain.

So with GST, that $447 for 2 links of chain

Ouch, something tell me they aint interested
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 20:25   #80
Do or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,298
So, what is the working load and breaking strength of that grade of chain? I don't know anything about "grade L" ...

May be you don't need bigger end links for that grade of chain?

cheers,
Nick.
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 20:51   #81
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
So, what is the working load and breaking strength of that grade of chain? I don't know anything about "grade L" ...

May be you don't need bigger end links for that grade of chain?

cheers,
Nick.
Perhaps you can tell me?
This was not the crowd who quoted me, but are the ones who have info on their site.
PWB Anchor Grade L Chain specs

It would seem to be 1.2 tonnes

I also see they have Fathom Chain, with large links already in
PWB Anchor Fathom Chains-Grade L
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2009, 00:08   #82
Do or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,298
I have no clue. I would want to know the breaking strength and exactly which chain fits the chainwheels etc. This stuff is completely different than US grades like from ACCO chain.

cheers,
Nick.
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2009, 00:44   #83
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,659
Grades are the same world wide. The US 'BBB' or '3B' is a Grade L.

Grade 30 is the old name for Grade L. Grade 40 is now Grade M. Grade 50 is Grade P and it continues.

An Aussie made Grade L 10mm has a break load of 5000kg and a SWL of 25% of that which is 1250kg.

A Grade 40 has a break of 6400 and a SWL of 1600kg. None of that is made and I don't think commonly available in Aussie but is commonly available in NZ even if not made there either.

The BBB load numbers will be a little different as that is a imperial 3/8" rather than a metric 10mm.

Yes Cat, it does very much appear someone can't be bothered fitting enlarged end links and has priced accordingly. I'm pretty sure if the ladies you asked won't do it PWB probably won't either. They do seem to be more willing to do strange stuff in the northern manufacturer than the one in Vic.

Most manufacturers have stopped doing it these days. Get 2 16mm 'Regular link' links and go to a good welder. They could fit those and then smother the buggers in cold galv. I say regular links as they have bigger internal dimensions so you can fit things in a lot better. Strength won't be an issue but if you get a enlarged link each end remember you have to fit one end through your winch and in many they probably wouldn't fit.
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2009, 14:23   #84
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
I'm pretty sure if the ladies you asked won't do it PWB probably won't either.
I did link this a few posts back


PWB Anchor Fathom Chains-Grade L
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2009, 15:11   #85
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,659
They do those but when asked seem very reluctant to do one offs, a bit strange.

Maybe score the 60 fathom one and chop it in 1/2? Sell 1/2 or keep as the secondary maybe?
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2009, 17:13   #86
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
Anyone know where the stresses are the least within the perimeter of the chain link when in tension?
Just curious where in the link one should make the X cut when putting on a larger link.
My farmer sense thinks it would be somewhere along the round end (45 degrees?) when in tension due to a larger cross section in relation to the force. Perhaps not less stress just more strength?
But I'm just guessing .

Anyone?

Extemp.
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2009, 17:29   #87
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,659
Assuming you have a chain link with the long sides pointing to 12 and 6 O'clock i.e. round ends pointing up and down. When you bust a good chain it will usually go at 2, 4, 8 or 10 O'clock type position. Just a bit into the bend after the straight sides, if that makes sense.

So that would suggest those spots are the weakest when at big loads so don't muck with them incase you weaken them further.

We tend to cut the weld out and replace that working on the theory 'fiddle with the bit that's already been fiddled with'. As yet we have had zero issues doing that.

There is nothing scientific about that, more just that's what we do and have had no problems doing it.... where a bit of wood to touch

We proof load (twice the SWL) each one we do, just in case. So far all good.

If it's a chinese made chain do the weld, you'll probably only improve the chains strength. Chinese made chains often will not break rather than just open up at the 'weld', that's assuming they did remember to actually weld that link. Don't laugh, it happens a lot more than you would expect where one or 2 links just haven't been welded.
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2009, 17:54   #88
Registered User
 
Extemporaneous's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Boat: Corbin 39 Special Edition
Posts: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
Assuming you have a chain link with the long sides pointing to 12 and 6 O'clock i.e. round ends pointing up and down. When you bust a good chain it will usually go at 2, 4, 8 or 10 O'clock type position. Just a bit into the bend after the straight sides, if that makes sense.
Well, I guess I had that just about EXACTLY WRONG.
Rethinking Considering your experience, perhaps it is in this straight section of the link that the most true/straight (no diagonal forces) tension is and hence the stronger?
Thanks for your experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
So that would suggest those spots are the weakest when at big loads so don't muck with them incase you weaken them further.
Got it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
We tend to cut the weld out and replace that working on the theory 'fiddle with the bit that's already been fiddled with'. As yet we have had zero issues doing that.
I would have thought this would have induced work hardening.
When thoughts are guesses sometimes there wrong .
Can't argue with results!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
If it's a chinese made chain do the weld, you'll probably only improve the chains strength. Chinese made chains often will not break rather than just open up at the 'weld', that's assuming they did remember to actually weld that link. Don't laugh, it happens a lot more than you would expect where one or 2 links just haven't been welded.
Nope it's ACCO.

Thanks for the insight.
Extemp.
Extemporaneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2009, 18:12   #89
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,659
Ya Whot!!!! You mean you've seen unwelded Acco? He asks with a gasp. That would be unusual I would expect, very much so. Then again when you make millions if not billions of links a year some surely have to sneak through with the odd issue.

All good chains are 'normalised' or 'stress relieved' during the manufacturing process so in theory all of the link should be relaxed and be the same all over.

Hence the weld zone should be the same as the rest. Again theory but sounds like a pretty good one.

Quite impressive to watch the normalisation process. Cold chain goes into a 3-4ft long pipe like thing covered in big wires and comes out the other end almost white hot and into a plunge bath. The process is repeated a couple of times. Massive power wires, hot metal, steam and so on, all a bit much for a lad who like playing with stuff like that. Chuck in some diesel and hydraulic fluid and I'd be like a pig in a big pen of pooh
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2009, 22:10   #90
Do or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,298
But but but... if that Assie chain is the same grade as BBB why bother with enlarged links? Regular shackles of same SWL fit the normal link... puzzled...

When I ordered my new chain at ACCO after hurricane Ivan, I specified 350' single piece 3/8" G7 chain (SWL 6,600 lbs), enlarged end-links on both ends welded on before hot-dip galvanize and full x-ray (each link) and SWL test. They charged $350 extra for that and included a full test report.

Recently I found "chain couplers" for 3/8" chain with a 6,600 lbs SWL... in the West Marine catalog, of all places. I have a couple and will soon test how they pass the chainwheel when used for coupling two chains, plus I will measure the jaw openings to see how big a shackle can be attached to it. I'll also see what size line could be spliced to it.
They aren't galvanized unfortunately, but have that "gold" coating instead. I'll spray that galvanize stuff on it and hope for the best if I start using them.

cheers,
Nick.
__________________

s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How Much Anchor Chain ? Jigsaw Anchoring & Mooring 13 14-12-2010 10:33
Chain Twist Clogging Hawse Pipe Paolo Anchoring & Mooring 23 06-07-2009 07:18
Anchor Chain Duke 48 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 35 26-01-2009 13:03
Anchor Chain markpj23 Health, Safety & Related Gear 48 17-11-2007 02:38
Anchor chain irwinsailor General Sailing Forum 3 17-06-2005 22:56



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.