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Old 19-05-2009, 00:43   #46
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Nick, it appears you are living on your boat and in that situation galv swivels can be fine. But leave one in your locker for a couple of weeks and it can quickly become rusted solid, we see it often. Using a SS one means that doesn't happen and the swivel will work all the time.

SS swivels are perfectly fine assuming you observe a few simple rules.
1 - Buy a good one, and it will cost. The Kong ones are fine and that example linked to is quite common with Kongs. More often than not it's a simple case of the pin coming out and that is easily fixed, using Loctite is just one way. So one could argue maybe the swivel didn't fail more the person who fitted it did. I'm not saying that was the case in that specific case but it certianly has been on more than a few others. It's quite amazing how much gear suddenly gets blamed to cover operator error.
2 - Don't use one when at anchor for any extended time on one go. Anchoring a lot is fine just extended continuous time under water use may cause issues. I say may as sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
3 - Make sure you don't have stray current running around your boat. Any stray could start or increase the dissimilar metal action.
4 - Never buy a swivel or anything important that isn't well marked and traceable. People who don't mark gear well do so for a reason, one being they are harder to find when things go bad.

Strength wise a good swivel is probably stronger than most shackles when talking size to size. I know one outfit who does good swivels and in 10 years with over 6000 swivels sold only one has ever been questioned. No-one could ever say shackles have that success rate.

And that whole don't put SS with Galv just doesn't stand up to close inspection I'm sorry. Yes it can and has happened but often you'll find there is another force at work. Stray current, carbon fibre, other mismatched issues further up the system are just some.

As you have seen yourself boats with mismatch systems do have issues when it cones to the connections. As your chain is pretty light for the boat size you are relying more on your anchor to do all the work so your connections will have to be a lot better than most others.

The chain twist could be one or a combination of the following -
- Poorly made chain. There is masses of it out there and some are so wobbly in manufacture one could almost think they built it to twist on purpose.
- Bow roller not symmetrical. It rolls the chain the same way all the time.
- Gypsy not quite right. There have been cases of gypsies not quite right which have tended to roll the chain a smidgen. Lots of smidgens equal a big twist.
- Spinning anchors. Some are known spinners and will cause twist in the chain. This twist will turn up where the chain links are the most miss-formed so it is possible the twist can happen well away from the anchor, which goes back to the 1st point.
- Winch installation. It doesn't take much for one to be just enough out of alignment for issues like this to arise. Check everything is lined up inside 5 degrees maximum, 2 degrees or less is best.

Interesting thread.
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Old 19-05-2009, 21:46   #47
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GMac,

Your post makes a lot of sense and I agree with most of it. However, the only reason you give for not using galvanized is that it can rust when left in a locker for a couple of weeks. I don't understand that as it will be in the same locker as the chain, which is galvanized too. So following your logic, one should go 100% stainless, not just the swivel, because the chain will rust as easy as the swivel when both are galvanized.

Most swivels will not be in a locker but on deck, attached to the anchor that sits on the roller. Circumstances (1st mate broke her ankle and leg) have us in a marina for almost a year now and the swivel looks like new. Same for the chain but the anchor shows some rust spots so I will get the ospho and instant galvanize out soon to deal with that.

About my connections needing to be better than for others... do you mean that you don't worry if the links show pitting from using a stainless connector because you don't need them to be so strong? Don't understand me wrong, I can understand that but that means that the problem with different metals is there but you can allow it to compromise the strength of the affected links up to a level because that level is still strong enough.
Also, it's a myth that a heavy chain relieves the tension on the chain-to-anchor connection. It only does so in conditions where the strength of the system is not tested. When the wind pipes up enough to lift the chain from the seabed is when you need all the strength and at that point the tension on the chain<>anchor connection is equal to that of the chain<>boat connection. In theory one can select a chain that won't be lifted up during a 60 knot squall but that doesn't happen in reality because it would be a ridiculous heavy ships chain. A heavy chain absorbs shocks better but there are other methods for that like a snubber.

other reasons for problems with different metals in anchor gear: these accelerate the problems indeed. A problem that I see often is that a boat with a bonding system has the windlass grounded/bonded. This is very wrong. When anchored, there should be no electrical connection between chain and boat ground. If that connection exists, the chain can be eaten up very quickly, I've seen that happen on both galvanized and stainless chains. The reason is that the anchor in the seabed has better ground than the dynaplate so a small current will flow through the chain. My Maxwell manual clearly warns that the windlass should not be grounded but it was. Also, my chain touched the stainless anchor-sprit which was bonded too. This is also the reason that the electric motor on the windlass has an isolated negative (negative is not connected to the housing).

chain quality: yes, I have seen that too. There was a boat here where we could not untwist the chain by hand. The links were worn is such a way that the twists were the natural position: after untwisting and letting go it twisted back in again from a free-hanging end.

gypsy: I have seen boats with a 3/8" chain gypsy and 10mm chain and the other way around. The link length is different so all sorts of problems happen with that mismatch.

winch alignment: indeed but only for a horizontal windlass.

an interresting thread indeed ;-)

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 20-05-2009, 01:01   #48
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GMac,

Your post makes a lot of sense and I agree with most of it. However, the only reason you give for not using galvanized is that it can rust when left in a locker for a couple of weeks. I don't understand that as it will be in the same locker as the chain, which is galvanized too. So following your logic, one should go 100% stainless, not just the swivel, because the chain will rust as easy as the swivel when both are galvanized.
Ah but the swivels move a lot more and are in contact with the ground so they, like the 1st few feet of chain, lose the galv 1st. When up on deck they will last better than in a locker. Down here many live in lockers and the cruisers tend to take the gear off the bow for passages. Basically to get anywhere from here is a min of 1000nmls.

Some and an increasing number are going 100% stainless. Personally I both think it's a bit over the top and yet think it's wonderful. I'd never do it on my boat but when we fit out a boat in all stainless I do like it

Maybe it's just us here, we just don't see many galv anymore and those we do are usually buggered.

But there is a very very noticable difference in the way we pick and use anchor gear down here than is the US and a lot of other places. We get a lot of US imports and the anchoring gear they arrive with is a joke for our conditions. Sweet for soft days but on an average days your boat would just not stay in one place.

I must admit to having a giggle when I see posts saying "and it was a windy night, it got to 25-30knots and our anchor held well". Here that is nothing and we send 8 year olds out Optimist racing in that. Here if you can't handle 30kts you don't go boating or you do only a little. That probably explains why we are so more anal about anchoring gear.

Quote:
About my connections needing to be better than for others... do you mean that you don't worry if the links show pitting from using a stainless connector because you don't need them to be so strong?
No, I mean as your system is more anchor reliant than most others the connections will have to work harder than most others hence they need to be better.

Quote:
Also, it's a myth that a heavy chain relieves the tension on the chain-to-anchor connection. It only does so in conditions where the strength of the system is not tested. When the wind pipes up enough to lift the chain from the seabed is when you need all the strength and at that point the tension on the chain<>anchor connection is equal to that of the chain<>boat connection. In theory one can select a chain that won't be lifted up during a 60 knot squall but that doesn't happen in reality because it would be a ridiculous heavy ships chain. A heavy chain absorbs shocks better but there are other methods for that like a snubber.
Yes and No. With heavier chain the loads required to straighten it out are far higher obviously. So until that happens the loads are lower at the anchor end than they are for smaller chains.

I disagree the same load is on the anchor/chain connection as it is on the chain/boat connection. The load at the boat is higher than the load on the anchor, at least in 99% of the conditions 99% of the boaters boat in. The other 1% is when it's all on big time and at that stage anything is likely to and can happen. Often the difference isn't that big but it is there.

We have some units fitted to boats right now that are measuring the actual forces at play, which includes wind speeds, wave action, loads on the rode and a few other bits. It is all logged every one minute. The initial numbers we have got back have surprised us. The loads aren't anywhere near as high as what seems to be common perception. But it's early days and we haven't clocked up that much in the over 50kt wind speed range yet so time will tell and be mighty interesting.

The electrical comment was due to us finding a few cleats/bollards and the odd bit of gear up on some bows with tiny currents running through them. Yes it was due to poor wiring but sadly poor wiring isn't uncommon. As is bare wires in anchor lockers.

Still not convinced with the dissimilar metals will 'always' cause issues claim. Yes it does happen but at the same time it doesn't. My neighbour has a alloy anchor (Spade) connected to his galvanised chain using a SS shackle. It's 4 years old and there is zero sign of anything happening between the 3 metals. We are coming to the conclusion the dissimilar action, when it happens, must have something to do with the metals quality and probably the boat somehow. We just can't pin a pattern down as to why or when an issue will be seen or not.

Quote:
winch alignment: indeed but only for a horizontal windlass.
Only horizontal??? Nope completely disagree there. Alignment on verticals is just as important. Maybe not quite so in the level of tolerance but still very important.

We aren't that far apart in our thoughts really. And it's still interesting thread

Boat safe Jedi and I love your avatar but then who couldn't get a tingle seeing twin gennys flying like that.
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Old 20-05-2009, 08:35   #49
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Nick, it's good to know you can get a larger link if you buy from the Manufacturer. One can assume they will weld and treat it properly. I have always bought mine via a wholesale account so I comes right out of the barrel at the wholesaler..... saves a lot of $, but doesn't get me a larger link!

Regarding windlass grounding... unless you have a separate isolated battery bank for the windlass.... isnt it gounded anyway through the 12V ground? Or are the motors in windlasses isolated from the chassis somehow?
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Old 20-05-2009, 13:15   #50
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At my post #29, above, I mentioned an item I had read in last Friday's 'Lectronic Latitude that dealt with a swivel failure. In today's 'LectLat, the CEO of West Marine evidently saw the item as well. From today's issue:

* * *

"West Marine Responds to Swivel Failure

"May 20, 2009 – Watsonville

"In Friday's 'Lectronic Latitude, we shared John and Gilly Foy's story of how the Kong anchor swivel on their 55-lb Delta anchor failed, causing their Alameda- and Banderas Bay-based Catalina 42 Destiny to drag. Luckily, they were able to set their secondary anchor before any damage occurred, but it scared the living daylights out of them.

"The story also caught the attention of West Marine CEO Geoff Eisenberg:"

* * *

To read the rest of the story, go to:

Latitude 38 - The West's Premier Sailing & Marine Magazine

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Old 20-05-2009, 14:33   #51
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GMac, all,

Even with our light chain, in 15-20 knots half of it is on the bottom, sometimes 2/3. This is on 1:4 or 1:5 scope. We anchor in 30-50 feet of water a lot so use up to 250 feet of chain (we have 350 feet).

I considered 70 ft of my chain beyond salvage after 4 years of use (always at anchor, no marina's). I cut that off and reversed the chain to get the like new bigger endlink to the anchor again for another 4 years (well 5 because we're in a marina for a year now). I painted the rest of the "bad" part 3-4 times with ospho to stop the corrosion. That part is almost never used as the chain is still 280 feet long. It is nice to have at least twice the length that you normally use so you can turn it and have like new to work with again. I paid $1,200 for that 350' long chain incl. the load test and bigger end links on both ends. Considering that WM would ask $3,500 for the same thing but without bigger end links or load testing, I think I got a good deal. I used the wholesale channel too and you can just request the bigger links there too (they just order it from manufacturer). I changed swivel and shackle when turning the chain, so that is 1 set every 4 years. shackle + swivel cost me $30 so added to the chain, I spend $160 per year on the anchoring system. That's less cost than 4 days in a marina (or just one day in Bahia Mar Ft Lauderdale!) so I'm happy.

Stainless... yes, I considered that but it isn't strong enough for us. We need that 6,600lb working load and at 3/8" you need the G7 galvanized alloy steel to get it that strong. The weight and volume of 1/2" chain is something we can't handle for the length we want. I think I would replace it after 10 years anyway so would only get two more years lifespan out of it.

Cheechako: the negative post on the motor of the windlass is isolated from the housing, so there is no electrical contact unless you attach a bonding wire or the chain touches something that's bonded.

About "windy nights".... indeed, I am puzzled by the differences in perception of "windy" too. In Curacao, anything below 20 is considered calm, 25 is something that will blow continuous for weeks and weeks and the Christmas winds do 30+ sustained for weeks too. In about half the passages we do, we encounter winds above 30 knots. But that's the Caribbean and I'm sure we'll have the light stuff to when we move on.

I knew my anchoring system was strong because we never dragged and had so many squalls, I wish I had that many quarters. In Biscayne Bay we got bad squalls every day with 40-50 knots of wind and one afternoon we were the only boat not dragging. As the years went by we got more confidence in the system and we feel fine at 3:1 scope in 30 knots now (in sand or clay), but it was a very happy surprise to find our boat floating at anchor after hurricane Ivan. The conditions at 120 knots wind for many hours and the 180 degree shift with the passing of the eye must have been beyond comprehension. The anchor (176lb Bruce) was buried 10 ft deep in the clay bottom and it took us 5.5 hours to get it out, using the main engine (140 hp at full throttle sometimes) all that time. We didn't know how far down the anchor was because all markers were gone but we could take a bit of slack chain in every time so kept on working... but we felt hopeless after 4 hours of that ;-)

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 20-05-2009, 14:51   #52
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Yes, the chain catenary is a great thing. I snorkeled the anchor a lot in the Caribe and one morning in the Tobago cays we had a steady 30-35 knots of wind by the anemometer. Under this load our 3/8 chain was buried in the sand for about 15-20 feet along with the anchor . The boat was a Lagoon 42 catamaran. I was pretty surprised by this. The chain didnt come out for the 5 minutes or so I was observing it. One caveat: the water was flat as the cays are protected from chop or swell but exposed to the wind.... On the other hand, if you are anchored in 3-4 ft chop and the bow is plunging, the chain will definitely snub up bar tight, need that snubber on. Still have to believe that cartenary helps diffuse some of the energy....
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Old 21-05-2009, 01:19   #53
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At my post #29, above, I mentioned an item I had read in last Friday's 'Lectronic Latitude that dealt with a swivel failure. In today's 'LectLat, the CEO of West Marine evidently saw the item as well. From today's issue:

* * *

"West Marine Responds to Swivel Failure
Good read and exactly what my thoughts on that are and what I would have done if they had been one of my customers. Well done WM. Should I tell them we have already busted a few Kongs and everything was sweet strength wise? Nice to see they also think that one pin holding it all together is a potential big problem area with boat owners who don't think things through properly.

I would have then followed up that by emailing LL and asked they got the whole story before spooking people unnecessarily. I say that as the boating public is very easily spooked by things like that and always see doom and gloom before finding out the facts. What's more that particular story, more just one part of, WILL be used as an example that if you use a swivel you will die, if it hasn't already.

These days with the interweb if it's published, it soon become fact even if it's not. The line of Rocnas that the Supreme is a copy (wrong) being one perfect example. Massively oversized anchors are all good (not these days) being another. There are many many more just like that.

The number of times I get quoted stuff that is blatantly wrong and more often than not very very easily proven so, is huge. And most of the time we can tell exactly where they found or were told that information. Personally I do find it a bit sad so many people read something, on a forum, manufacturers website or whatever, and believe it as gospel. 99% of the time just a little more research would give the person the real story.

Sorry for the minor rant. I've been stirring up our local industry up today for pathetic customer service and I'm obviously not over that as much as I thought. Better make it Rum O'clock I think and mix up a long tall glass of 'calm the **** down'
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Old 21-05-2009, 04:22   #54
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I get the same problem with my hair dryer lead, even though its got a swivel at the appliance end.

I found out that because i put it down in the same place and way each time, then pick it up differently, it gets one turn in each time. It all adds up.
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Old 12-06-2009, 15:12   #55
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As an update to my post #50, above, today's 'Lectronic Latitude carries a story on the aftermath of the testing West Marine conducted as a result of the reported failure of a Kong swivel. From the story:

* * *

"West Marine Swivel Testing

"June 12, 2009 – Watsonville

"In May 15's 'Lectronic Latitude, we reported on John and Gilly Foy's wild ride through an anchorage after their Kong anchor swivel — which they bought at West Marine a few years earlier — failed. West Marine CEO Geoff Eisenberg was quick to respond to the report. 'This is a really big deal to us,' Eisenberg told us. 'As you would imagine, the last thing we want to do is sell bad products.' "

* * *

To read the entire report, go to:

Latitude 38 - The West's Premier Sailing & Marine Magazine

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Old 12-06-2009, 15:22   #56
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Oh Gawd,,, here we go with swivels again! :>) The one thing I dont understand is this though, if you want to use a swivel, why not just put a huge one on the anchor itself? So a 35 pound Delta would probably take a what...5/8" swivel? (5/8 diameter pin) The swivel certainly wouldnt be the weak link there.... you might have to hacksaw off the shackle that is permanent on some anchors......
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Old 12-06-2009, 15:41   #57
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Well, that test shows I was right all the time: these shiny swivels are flawed and can't take the side loads. The bigger ones can't even take their SWL in lateral tension (pulled straight back) without deforming.

Also, "some" malfunctioned right new out of the package.

NOW they add the text that a shackle should be inserted between anchor and swivel. This is a stupid quick fix to reduce or prevent liability. The whole thing was designed to be a swivel + anchor connector.

My conclusion stays: shiny thingies for boats that stay safely docked in marina's. If you plan to stay at anchor (and not run back into the marina when a dark cloud comes your way) you better get a big shackle + swivel made out of galvanized steel with SWL stamped in.

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Old 12-06-2009, 21:04   #58
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Wow... a very blanket statement Jedi. Didn't read the report quite right by the looks.

How would you explain these facts then -
1 - More boats here have been damaged due to steel swivel failure than SS swivel failure. Off the top of my head I can think of 2 boats damaged due to SS failures, which were more in fact design failures as the swivel components were still perfectly fine. For steel ones I can think of a dozen plus without trying hard. Being fair a number of these steel failures were just due to them being a poorly made product.

2 - One crowd here has sold in excess of 4-5000 SS swivels used for exactly the same reason the Kongs are, in 5-6 years with only 1 (one) reported failure? (that being a pin 'just' unscrewed itself, no damage to anything)

3 - Do you regard exceeding the very well stated SWL by well over twice and not expecting any issue as acceptable practice by boat owners? (WM did do just that in their testing)

And you'll note only one actually failed (but only after being pulled to well over the stated SWL) to the point it may have been a safety issue. Some of the rest deformed or stopped swivelling which doesn't meant they were un-safe more just not working as they should, and the rest worked fine.

In not defending these particular swivels as such even though a good well made swivel can be very very useful on many boats. Equally I see many boats that just don't need them but they are fitted. I'm more just asking for people to post based on facts rather than hearsay or their own ingrained mind-set.

And, like everything, there are swivels and there are swivels. Many may look pretty much the same but in use they often can be very very different.

That shackle between the anchor and swivel is nothing new and many have been doing that for decades even longer. Every ship and most Superboats do just that right now. We often recommend to those who have unbalanced or under sized systems to put a few links of chain between the anchor and swivel just to remove all chances of any side load overloading. That's isn't that many luckily.

Cheechako - most swivels are sized to the chain rather than the anchor so often the biggest that will fit on the anchor won't actually fit the chain.
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Old 13-06-2009, 13:22   #59
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Okay, I see that I need to elaborate on my previous post.

Let's start with a quote of the first interesting section from the test report:

Quote:
reported that all swivels held their SWL (safe working load) when pulled straight back (linear tension). "We did find minor deformation on the majority of 1/2" and 5/16" swivels," Osborn noted. The deformations ranged from bowed pins, failure to swivel, failure to release the screw, and extra play in the swivel. "The 1/4" swivels all functioned normally and didn't deform in the majority of cases."
So what this says is that when pulled straight at SWL they didn't break but the majority deformed. The deformations are described in the quote above and they all mean that you need to replace the shiny thinghy.

Now, where I come from SWL means that this is the maximum load that you can use it for without any damage as a result. These Kong thingies deform at the stated SWL so they are flawed, even in a straight pull test which is much too nice to compare with real world anchoring loads.

The next quote:

Quote:
Osborn's team then tested several 5/16" swivels with a 90º transverse side load to the swivels' 4400 lb SWL. "All samples deformed significantly," he reported, "and one deformed to the degree that the load bearing pin came free once the flange spread to the point of failure."
They test side load at SWL. All of the tested samples deformed and one even broke. This means that the breaking load has been reached. SWL is normally 20% of breaking load so this 5/16 Kong thingy has a breaking load of 4,400 lb and a SWL of 880 lb, not the SWL of 4,400 lb as advertised.

The report also agrees with my statement that these thingies are normally considered to both swivel and connect the anchor to the chain without a shackle. I don't make that up. Use of an extra shackle is a dirty quick fix like I mentioned in my previous post. When you use a shackle the SWL will go up but not to 4,400 lbs because they deform at that load. They should have tested for the max. load they didn't deform yet and confirm that by x-raying the samples after the test.

I want to end with GMac's facts:

1. Galvanized steel swivels fail much more than SS versions. I don't believe that. I have never seen one that failed while in reasonable condition. They only fail when one selects an undersized swivel or let it corrode through. These swivels have an end of life just like chain. I renew mine when I turn the chain end for end and when I replace my chain (so two swivels over the lifespan of one chain). So, I don't believe it is a fact galvanized steel swivels fail more often. Many stainles swivels don't fail because they are never used or only for lunch on a daysail. A lashing of 1/8" spectra will do a better job than these shiny thingies (I am still serious ;-)

2. I understand that you know as a matter of fact about 5,000 stainless swivels that were sold (which shop sold so many???) and only one was reported as failed within the first 5 years. Sorry but I can't believe that and it is far from fact. I will bet you a night of free drinks (incl. my beloved Cuba Libre's) that if one would take 10 of those swivels and load them sideways to their SWL that at least 8 deform. And that is conservative as the Kong test showed that 10 out of 10 deformed.

3. They tested twice SWL. No, I read 1 x SWL.

ciao!
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Old 13-06-2009, 14:33   #60
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Okay, I see that I need to elaborate on my previous post.

Let's start with a quote of the first interesting section from the test report:

So what this says is that when pulled straight at SWL they didn't break but the majority deformed. The deformations are described in the quote above and they all mean that you need to replace the shiny thinghy.

Now, where I come from SWL means that this is the maximum load that you can use it for without any damage as a result. These Kong thingies deform at the stated SWL so they are flawed, even in a straight pull test which is much too nice to compare with real world anchoring loads.
Correct one would expect them to reach SWL without bending but 'deformed' is quite different than 'failed'. We have pulled these a few times ourselves and everything was fine but we have seen the odd thing that has made us think there could be the odd wobble in production sometimes.

Quote:
The next quote:

They test side load at SWL. All of the tested samples deformed and one even broke. This means that the breaking load has been reached. SWL is normally 20% of breaking load so this 5/16 Kong thingy has a breaking load of 4,400 lb and a SWL of 880 lb, not the SWL of 4,400 lb as advertised.

The report also agrees with my statement that these thingies are normally considered to both swivel and connect the anchor to the chain without a shackle. I don't make that up. Use of an extra shackle is a dirty quick fix like I mentioned in my previous post. When you use a shackle the SWL will go up but not to 4,400 lbs because they deform at that load. They should have tested for the max. load they didn't deform yet and confirm that by x-raying the samples after the test.
Deforming and breaking is not the same thing. You hop onto most yachts and you'll find something deformed but still being used quite safely.

It says
Quote:
Osborn's team then tested several 5/16" swivels with a 90º transverse side load to the swivels' 4400 lb SWL. "All samples deformed significantly," he reported, "and one deformed to the degree that the load bearing pin came free once the flange spread to the point of failure."
Every thing published by Kong on these 5/16" swivels very very clearly states the side load SWL is 85kN or 850kg or 1850lb. They loaded to over twice that and found they deformed. Hello.....

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I want to end with GMac's facts:

1. Galvanized steel swivels fail much more than SS versions. I don't believe that. I have never seen one that failed while in reasonable condition. They only fail when one selects an undersized swivel or let it corrode through. These swivels have an end of life just like chain. I renew mine when I turn the chain end for end and when I replace my chain (so two swivels over the lifespan of one chain). So, I don't believe it is a fact galvanized steel swivels fail more often. Many stainles swivels don't fail because they are never used or only for lunch on a daysail. A lashing of 1/8" spectra will do a better job than these shiny thingies (I am still serious ;-)
Would you like a list of when and where? It is very easily arranged. Many steel ones fail as they are just not checked and cared for by the owners as they should. They are more prone to issues when not cared for. So I suppose you could say that in some cases the swivel probably was quite fine but the owner failed in his duty of maintenance.

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2. I understand that you know as a matter of fact about 5,000 stainless swivels that were sold (which shop sold so many???) and only one was reported as failed within the first 5 years. Sorry but I can't believe that and it is far from fact. I will bet you a night of free drinks (incl. my beloved Cuba Libre's) that if one would take 10 of those swivels and load them sideways to their SWL that at least 8 deform. And that is conservative as the Kong test showed that 10 out of 10 deformed.
not just one shop as much as I'm sure just one would have liked too. Cool a free feed, always in for one of those. But I'll share the cost of dinner as that is just a gimme so not fair on you really Sorry but it is fact whether you want to believe it or not. And after being in the field tested but at less 500 complete idiots (working on 10% of the boating public being completely bloody stupid) none have failed. That looks pretty good to me and a far better rate than many of the actual boats they are being used on.

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3. They tested twice SWL. No, I read 1 x SWL.
See above.

I understand some people just have a train of though about a range of products purely due to what they have or haven't seen on just one of that range. It's as common as muck and human nature. But not everything is equal and that should be kept in mind.

If you love steel swivels and they haven't given you any greif I'd say that's all good so carry on as usual. But from someone who deals with this stuff day in day out I see a lot more things than most people so see things a bit different. Yes there are good steel swivels just as there is good SS ones. But equally there is bad and nasty ones of each as well. The key is to knowing which is which and adjusting things to suit. If you do that most if not all of any 'scary factor' can be eliminated.

Must run, off for a yacht, a very wet and windy one looking outside. Bum.
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