Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-05-2009, 21:39   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Pacific Ocean
Boat: Morgan 41 O/I
Posts: 49
3/8 or 5/16 HT Chain - Morgan OI 41

We recently purchased and installed (think, drilled a 4 inch hole in the deck) a used windlass on our Morgan 41 O/I (approx. 28,000 lbs fully loaded). We believed the windlass to be suitable for our 3/8ths HT chain. Turns out, the windlass will only work for a 5/16ths chain.

If we purchase a new windlass to work with a 3/8 chain, it will set us back roughly 2K. So, my question: do we need a 3/8 chain for our boat (we currently have 150 feet of the 3/8 chain)? Would 250 feet of 5/16 HT chain be sufficient? Is it really worth an extra 2k for the 3/8 windlass?

We plan to cruise Southern California, Mexico and possibly the Carribean.

Thanks so much for any insight.
__________________

__________________
Sea Conquest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2009, 21:45   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Pacific Ocean
Boat: Morgan 41 O/I
Posts: 49
I forgot to mention...

we have a 45 lb. CQR anchor.
__________________

__________________
Sea Conquest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2009, 22:24   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,328
First, you can probably get a new chain wheel for the windlass you have which is compatible with 3/8 HT for a lot less than 2k.

Secondly, we have sailed around the world for 15 years with 270 ft of 5/16 HT chain on our 30,000 lb Beneteau 45, and it has worked just fine (we have never used more than 250 ft) but 250 ft of 5/16 HT will set you back about 1k.

Last, you should probably save some money for upgrading the 45 lb CQR to something like a 60 lb Delta, Manson, or Rocna, which will give you a lot more peace of mind than heavier chain.
__________________
donradcliffe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2009, 23:07   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Pacific Ocean
Boat: Morgan 41 O/I
Posts: 49
fortress

Just read a test about anchors and fortress sounded like the best on the market. What do you think?

Thanks
__________________
Sea Conquest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2009, 23:25   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,328
The Fortress works very well for a straight pull in soft sand or soft mud, but is difficult to set in even moderately hard sand, let alone weed or rock. If you are in a a reversing tide or current against wind situation, the Fortress cannot be counted on to reset. Its a good second anchor, but a poor primary one. We actually carry a FX37 as a third anchor because it is easy to stow disassembled, but have never used it.
__________________
donradcliffe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2009, 23:42   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Pacific Ocean
Boat: Morgan 41 O/I
Posts: 49
what kind of manson ?
__________________
Sea Conquest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2009, 23:43   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Pacific Ocean
Boat: Morgan 41 O/I
Posts: 49
what do you think of the result of that test

http://www.rocna.com/press/press_0612_wm_ym_testing.pdf
__________________
Sea Conquest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2009, 02:23   #8
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,583
Images: 240
The 5/16" HT is a stronger chain than the 3/8" PC.
IMO, either size would be adequate for a storm anchor on an OI 41.

3/8 PC Chain (G3) is rated at 2650 Lbs, whereas 5/16 Hi-Test (G43) is rated at 3900 Lbs.
1" diameter 3-Strand Nylon is rated at 2795 Lbs, and 1" Double Braid at 3153 Lbs.
By comparison; 5/16" PC (G3) chain is rated at 1900 Lbs, and 3/4" dia. Double Braid Nylon rope, is rated 1813 Lbs.

See the ABYC recommendations on:

Design Loads for Deck Hardware
http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...r&imageuser=79

WLL for Anchor Rodes
http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...r&imageuser=79

See the NACM Welded Steel Chain Specifications at:
http://www.nacm.info/Downloads/NACM_Welded.pdf

Pictured below ➥ http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...p?i=1851&c=503
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	79canoe_69mph-med.jpg
Views:	185
Size:	138.6 KB
ID:	8341   Click image for larger version

Name:	79chain_nacm_specs_00001-med_original.jpg
Views:	358
Size:	145.3 KB
ID:	8342  

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2009, 06:07   #9
Eternal Member
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Brisas Panama AGAIN!
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 4,508
Images: 123
I use 5/15HT chain on my cat. I was going to go up to 3/8, but Maxwell told me they did not make an interchangable gypsy. I was willing to buy a larger winch, but they convinced me that I was fine with 5/16HT chain. So far they have been correct, and we have sat in 60+knots on the hook for a night during hurrican Charlie........i2f
__________________
SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!
BORROWED..No single one of is as smart as all of us!
http://sailingwithcancer.blogspot.com/
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2009, 09:38   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,363
3/8 BBB or 5/16 HT should be fine. The HT will corrode faster for sure...
__________________
Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2009, 10:17   #11
Registered User
 
Polunu880's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego, Ca
Boat: 880 waller catamaran
Posts: 56
Images: 3
you should bite the bullet and get the 3/8"
I use 5/16" on my 29' cat and that that seams small to me.
what size is the line or are you using all chain?
cliff
__________________
Polunu880 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2009, 10:31   #12
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,328
Interesting anchor test results. My own experience with a Fortress and and a true Danforth was exactly the opposite. We started out with a 44 lb Bruce (not the Lemar knockoff), and found that it was not reliable in softer bottoms and would have to set a Danforth as a second anchor in strong winds. We shifted to a 60 lb Bugel in Turkey when the Bruce absolutely refused to penetrate the weedy bottom of the Med. The Bugel is an improvement, and they were selling for only $2/lb in Marmaris. Its easy to set, but it also drags occasionally, probably because it doesn't have the surface area of the Rocna or Manson Supreme. I would go for a 55-60 lb anchor in any case, as the extra load on the windlass is not a problem (its the same as pulling up 10 more feet of chain), and the heavier anchors penetrate more easily and have more holding power.

The tests on the CQR parallel my own observations. I got to know a boat when their CQR dragged in Indonesia, dove on their CQR in the Med to see it lying sideways on the bottom, and their boat was heavily damaged in the Galapagos when it dragged ashore.
__________________
donradcliffe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2009, 12:51   #13
Registered User
 
bottleinamessage's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Part time C.L.O.D in Velcro Beach
Boat: Jeanneau, SO 42.1 "Far Niente"
Posts: 251
5/16 HT has a safe working load of 3900# and breaking strength of 11600#. I've used it for years from Maine to the Bahamas connected to a 66# Bruce. We sail a 40 Jeanneau. If I were to buy a new anchor today it would probably be a Rocna. My last choice would be a CQR.

OK folks, flame away!
__________________
I wish I'd done this sooner!
bottleinamessage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2009, 16:33   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Boat: Seafarer 30 Impetuous
Posts: 426
Images: 45
you could consider selling your used windlass to me, for a nominal fee, and put that toward your new, larger one!
__________________
Northeaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2009, 23:44   #15
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Conquest View Post
Just read a test about anchors and fortress sounded like the best on the market. What do you think?
I think tests are interesting to see certain specifics of anchors or parts of but are far from real life. But saying that, that test does pretty much mirror what we see both in our testing and real life but with cautions.

I agree completely with DonR about the Fortress. Great in soft bottom straight line pulls but can have issues in changing tidal directions, hard bottoms and they do bend under big loads.

We still reckon Spade has it by a nose but very very closely followed by it's 2 clones (Rocna and Supreme) but all 3 are a big step ahead of the rest and in most cases well above what most will ever put on them. The Ultra and the Raya look like they will be part of that club as well. Only done low level testing on those but both come up looking very shiny.

Sad to see Rocna is still modifying the results of tests. Oh gosh they come out on top, fancy that.

If working on the same safety margin of 4:1, the industry standard worldwide, US G4 excepted -
5/16" G43 has a WLL of 2425lb
3/8" BBB G30 has a WLL of 2650lb (that actually makes it a G33 but what's 3 between mates )

If a 4:1 margin is applied to a 5/16" chain with a WLL of 3900lb, that makes it a G65.

Just watch for that one. The elevated WLL of the G4 is purely due to a reduction of the safety margin. A playing with numbers thing.

In metric land -
8mm G30 has a WLL of 800kg (1760lb)
8mm G40 1000kg (2205lb)
10mm G30 1250kg (2760lb)
10mm G40 1600kg (3530lb)

The small differences between the US and the metric loads are due to the small variations between metric and imperial. 3/8" is 9.5mm in metric speak.
__________________

__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
morgan

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
anyone have a Morgan 31? nonamebrand Monohull Sailboats 5 24-08-2017 08:07
morgan classic vs morgan oi bluewater99 Monohull Sailboats 21 29-07-2016 08:27
Morgan 31 Jacothebrave Monohull Sailboats 6 10-03-2013 06:46
Morgan 43 CC (Looking) SkiprJohn Monohull Sailboats 9 28-06-2008 04:45
Morgan 41 Old Partner Monohull Sailboats 11 19-11-2005 18:01



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.