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Old 14-05-2013, 07:03   #31
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Of course all you guys could avoid the gasoline ethanol problems by running your small outboards on propane like I do.
Is that a Lehr motor, something else, or a custom setup?
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Old 14-05-2013, 07:13   #32
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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It's in neutral when you don't grab any throttle, but there's no other way to select it. Drop down the RPMs and you're in neutral, if that makes sense.
Yes and no. There's centrifugal clutch so at idle speed, the prop is not engaged so that's theoretically "neutral".

The problem is, it won't start with the throttle all the way at idle so as a practical matter, it's in gear when it starts and one would be well advised to have the boat secured when starting.

Once it starts, you can cut the speed down to idle and you'll be fine.

For anyone moving from a two stroke to a four stroke, be aware that if you intend to lay the motor down for storage, it must be laid down on a particular side. This keeps the oil in the crankcase where it belongs. It's not just a Honda thing, it's all small four stroke outboards.
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Old 14-05-2013, 07:17   #33
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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i wont touch the small 4 stroke Honda engines, nasty engines, hard to start and finicky. .....
That has not been my experience. The only time I had trouble starting mine was one time when I forgot to move the fuel lever to "On". I can't hold that against Honda.

I needed a light weight outboard for a small dinghy. My choices at the time were Honda and Suzuki. I chose the Honda. If I were buying one today rather than last year, I would strongly consider the propane powered outboard that someone else mentioned.
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Old 14-05-2013, 07:25   #34
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
"It's in neutral when you don't grab any throttle, but there's no other way to select it. Drop down the RPMs and you're in neutral, if that makes sense. "
Thanks Rebel. Sounds like a centrifugal clutch that engages as RPM increase.
I haven't checked in a couple of years but the centrifugal clutch is an option that costs more. That engine also has (had?) a version that is always in gear.
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Old 14-05-2013, 07:36   #35
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

Hutch, I'm a Lehr dealer and I personally own a Lehr 2.5.
I'm building a 14' plywood skiff that I plan to put a Lehr 9.9 on.
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Old 14-05-2013, 07:39   #36
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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I don't see how running it out of fuel will do any harm, even with a two stroke (I shut off as soon as the revs increase). My theory is is that varnish and gunk inducing constituents in the fuel are best burnt off before they become varnish or gunk. I have a Johnson 3.5 2 st that spends weeks at a time unused that I've just had to clean the carbi on, mainly because there was water in the tank but I figured it was due for the full service after 8 years untouched anyway. All I found was a little bit of crystalized gunk in the bottom of the float boal and very little varnish staining.

Small four stroke are more susceptible to problems with fuel because of their much finer jets then either corresponding 2 stroke or bigger 4 st engines so it is possible that gunk in the jets could dry and harden and then require mechanical removal. Having said that, I think the fuel in your average float bowl would evaporate within a couple of days anyway.
I've been running my two stroke outboards out of gas by pulling the fuel line off when I was done with them my whole life, because that was the way my father taught me to do it. Never had a problem starting one that I treated like that, even with E10.
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Old 14-05-2013, 07:44   #37
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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I haven't checked in a couple of years but the centrifugal clutch is an option that costs more. That engine also has (had?) a version that is always in gear.
Mine has the centrifugal clutch and it was not an option. It was standard. You pretty much have to have either a neutral gear or a clutch to be able to maneuver the boat without hitting things.
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Old 14-05-2013, 07:58   #38
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

When you go out cruising a bit further from 1st world homes you will notice that things are different. Some things will be shocking, everything will be eye opening. Same for outboards. You will start to notice outboards that are not for sale "at home" like the Yamaha Enduro series. These will burn any gas quality, brackets will not fall off, parts will be available, local shops know how to fix them if need be, life will be good. 15hp seems to be the ticket

So if your plans are to sail off then save the $$$ for the outboard and buy it when you reach the cruising grounds. Be sure to put it behind an AB or Caribe dinghy, or at least an Avon (not PVC tubes which fall apart ).

I guess this has been written thousands of times already but the yard here is again full of abandoned PVC crap from new cruisers who missed this piece of advice
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Old 14-05-2013, 08:00   #39
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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Of course all you guys could avoid the gasoline ethanol problems by running your small outboards on propane like I do.
I guess the biggest question I have is do you do long term cruising or do you stay relatively close to civilization? Sometimes Gasoline is difficult enough to get out in the boondocks, and propane is next to impossible. It's tolerable for a low use situation such as cooking where you can go months between fill ups, but I would think it difficult if you use your dinghy a lot. Do you use your dihghy for anything besides going to the dock?

Here in the Bahamas Propane has recently skyrocketed in price. The last quotes I got were $42.50 and $45 for a 20lb tank and I would have had to wait 5 days for the $45 fill. I was getting $25 fills in March. I can buy 7 gallons of gasoline for that much money. I haven't had any issues with the carb over here because they don't put ethanol in the gas. It always starts on the first or second pull. The other issue is that utside of the US in the tropics there is a lot of butane in the "Propane". What effect does that have on your fuel mixture?
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Old 14-05-2013, 08:07   #40
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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I guess the biggest question I have is do you do long term cruising or do you stay relatively close to civilization? Sometimes Gasoline is difficult enough to get out in the boondocks, and propane is next to impossible. It's tolerable for a low use situation such as cooking where you can go months between fill ups, but I would think it difficult if you use your dinghy a lot. Do you use your dihghy for anything besides going to the dock?

Here in the Bahamas Propane has recently skyrocketed in price. The last quotes I got were $42.50 and $45 for a 20lb tank and I would have had to wait 5 days for the $45 fill. I was getting $25 fills in March. I can buy 7 gallons of gasoline for that much money. I haven't had any issues with the carb over here because they don't put ethanol in the gas. It always starts on the first or second pull. The other issue is that utside of the US in the tropics there is a lot of butane in the "Propane". What effect does that have on your fuel mixture?
When you come here with a propane fired outboard the locals will not be able to stop laughing for a week. Forget any form of service, they will ask you you pull something over it so nobody will see it when you leave the shop.

I was unfortunate enough to own a propane fired genset once how stupid can I be it slurped a 20lb bottle down in less time than it charged my house battery. You need a propane tanker to follow you with these.

I would go electric at "home" and solid 2-stroke Yamaha Enduro "out there".
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Old 14-05-2013, 08:07   #41
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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Mine has the centrifugal clutch and it was not an option. It was standard. You pretty much have to have either a neutral gear or a clutch to be able to maneuver the boat without hitting things.
I guess I must be a better driver than you. I manage to not hit things.

Many of the low power engines came with no transmission. My older version of the Honda 2 hp (no streamlined cover) is always in gear.

Looking at the Honda site, they have discontinued the 2 hp (the air cooled streamlined cover) and replaced it with the 2.3 Hp. The 2.3 only comes with the centrifugal clutch.

Page 9 of the manual linked below shows that only the SCHA and LCHA models of the 2 hp came with the centrifugal clutch.

http://marine.honda.com/pdf/manuals/31ZW6605.pdf
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Old 14-05-2013, 08:22   #42
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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.............. I would go electric at "home" and solid 2-stroke Yamaha Enduro "out there".
In the good old USA, the people we elected to run things decided that we could not buy 2 stroke outboards anymore (except for sophisticated computer controlled ones, impractical for small engines). They seem to think we elected them to protect us from ourselves.

That leaves us with the option of four strokes, propane powered four strokes, and battery/electric outboards.
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Old 14-05-2013, 08:25   #43
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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I guess I must be a better driver than you. I manage to not hit things..............
No doubt you are a better driver than I am. Thanks for pointing that out.

An outboard with a prop that never stops turning would be pretty inconvenient at best and a danger at worst. Because of your superior operating skills, it's not a problem for you, but it would be for most folks. That's probably why Honda made the clutch standard.
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Old 14-05-2013, 08:27   #44
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

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In the good old USA, the people we elected to run things decided that we could not buy 2 stroke outboards anymore (except for sophisticated computer controlled ones, impractical for small engines). They seem to think we elected them to protect us from ourselves.

That leaves us with the option of four strokes, propane powered four strokes, and battery/electric outboards.
Why can't you just read what I write? The USA has nothing, nothing to say about what outboards gets sold and bought by people "out there".
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Old 14-05-2013, 08:31   #45
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Re: Most absurd statement by Honda dealer. You won't believe this!

Best thing about my Honda was selling it to an unsuspecting Frenchman

Complete POS. Brute to start, tiny fuel tank, so always had to cart the fuel can about; noisy, all the bolts tightened by a sumo wrestler, so the nuts stripped the plastic and you could never get them out, that daft clutch arrangement so one crashed coming alongside.

Replaced with a 3.3 Mariner 2 stroke. Bliss.
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