Welding vs Fittings for Rails

[IolantheSF]

I'm looking to re-do my push-pit and integrate it with a full cockpit cover to hold solar panels, plus switch from lifelines to rails. Any thoughts on using SS fittings vs. having it all welded would be greatly appreciated. Are fittings equally strong? Has anyone had issues with a large welded structure like that? Are there less costly alternatives? Does canvas tend to wear out / tear when pulled over fittings?

The cost of the fittings is a bit of a consideration as well. I'm looking at about $700 to $1000 just for the fittings. The only alternative I can think of is to get a TIG welder and brush up my skills (used to weld oxy-acetylene and buzz-box). I'm guessing selling the rig after I'm done would put the total cost about the same. Hiring it all done is probably out of my reach.

Thanks!

[JPA Cate]

Iolanthe SF,

Acrylic canvas can be laced around rails and fittings. It does not stay waterproof more than 5 yrs., IME, although being covered by solar panels might extend its life.

The job you suggest has to come out right, or there'll be even more holes drilled. What you suggest is a structure that will add tremendously to the boat's hobby horsing, all that weight aft and up high. Or were you planning to use the flexible solar panels?

I have seen home welded structures that came out really well, complete with cleats welded on aft, for tying up dinghies to, others come out with very agricultural looking welds. If you go ahead with it, give some consideration to building in water catchment. Rain squalls offer a chance to refill water tanks.

Maybe a local community college has a TIG welding class where you could polish up your skills?

Good luck with your project.

Ann

[onestepcsy37]

I used 1" stainless tubing and stainless fittings to construct a "tower" to hold my solar panel over the stern. It stands 6 feet above the coamings and the base legs are about 3 feet apart. For strength I drilled through the fittings and used stainless bolts to secure them to the tubes. I have NO welding skills so it was that or pay what I considered exorbitant charges by the local land shark. Three years now and i am still happy with the results.

[HopCar]

To my eye welded looks a lot better but it needs a really good welder to make it look right. If you are going to bend tubes, let a pro do it.

If you decide to go with fittings, send me a list of what you'll need. I'd love the chance to quote you. I sell Suncor and Seadog rail fittings.

[Ex-Calif]

I am tempted to talk you out of switching from lifelines + netting to rails as it's probably heavier and I don't know what you gain but if you do this.

For rails - welding is the go.

For pushpit - welding is the go

For the arch and bimini fittings are the go unless as Ann says you go with laced on bimini canvas.

[model 10]

Through bolting the fittings could be a good plan. You could make some gentle bends if needed. Buying a decent tig welder and getting good enough to weld tubing is no small order. Forget Harbor Freight type tig welders, you will need to buy something like a Miller or Lincoln entry level welder. Probably pushing $1500 + a gas tank. A shop to work in is a big plus, drill press, sanders/grinders, polishing equipment, air etc. Trying to make pretty welds on the boat is almost a joke unless you are very experienced.

[IolantheSF]

Thanks to all for the tips. I like the through-bolting idea as if I get the whole thing up and change my mind about one thing or another... The extra strength of the sockets at the joints should make up for not welding. Some diagonal bracing in the form of 1/4 SS cables should add a little rigidity.

Happy sails!

[Snowpetrel]

I managed to stick weld all my stainless rails on snow petrel, the thin tubing was a challange, but managable with an inverter welder, small rods and fast responses. The level of finish I got might be OK for your atkins, or maybe not depending on the rest of the boat and your 'poshness' level.

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[roverhi]

Had a welder extend the pushpit so I could mount solar panels. He did a great job adding about 2' to the length, additional down tube support and cross bracing. Can't tell it wasn't original and more rigid. Unfortunately it wasn't cheap, about a boat unit for all the work.

[Tayana42]

One consideration to keep in mind about a welded unit. I docked next to a Nordic Tug last week. He had a leaky deck fitting attaching one leg of a beautifully welded railing around his entire upper deck. To get at the resulting bad spot under the fitting he was going to have to remove the entire structure as one piece ( about a dozen uprights each with 4 bolts ) and after the repair he has to be sure to seal all of them to prevent new water intrusion at any of the now dry holes. Something to think about.


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[Terra Nova]

Assembling a rail from separate fittings, through-bolted or not, is weak and can create a loosely hung together structure, perhaps OK for an inshore trailer boat, but unsuited to offshore work.

Tig welding requires skill that few stick and gas welders possess. And it takes perhaps years of experience, and thousand of $ worth of equipment, to get good at this. Leave it to a pro.

And leave the lifelines alone.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Tig welding requires skill that few stick and gas welders possess. And it takes perhaps years of experience, and thousand of $ worth of equipment, to get good at this. Leave it to a pro.

Thanks for saying that. I thought I was the only one.

Stick welding is for trailers and boat stands.

I was trained to tig weld. While I have stick welded on trailers I have never done anything "pretty" with a stick

[GILow]

I actually found TIG welding easier than MIG, certainly a lot neater. Therefore, I guess I am of the weld-it-if-you-can mindset, though the point about being able to dismantle what you build for maintenance purposes opened my eyes a bit. I had not previously considered that.

I do like the idea of buying the TIG to do the job, then selling it later. I often make similar purchases with tools I know I will need for a finite amount of time, but will be of great value to me while I have them. I just take good care of them while I have them, protect them from scratches, scuffing etc, and I can usually sell them very easily.

Ann's point about weight is valid though, and I find myself getting into a kind of "welding trance" sometimes. In those cases, I am not sure I would trust myself to adhere to the KISS principle. So watch you don't end up with the Taj Mahal of stainless steel on the stern when you have finished.

Matt

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Thanks for saying that. I thought I was the only one.

Stick welding is for trailers and boat stands.

I was trained to tig weld. While I have stick welded on trailers I have never done anything "pretty" with a stick

We don't need pretty, just strong Perfectly adequate and tidy welds can be done with a stick if you know what you're doing. It's slower than Mig and not as delicate as TIG. But it sure has it's place on a sailing boat, Maybe not on a sailing"yacht" but we don't all want to sail glitzy fancy "yachts".

To be honest it's not real easy stick welding thin wall tube, but it can be done and it doesn't need to look like seagulls crap. I never bothered polishing any of mine, Snow Petrel was all about function, and shiny stainless handrails didn't add much function, given that I wanted to sail, not polish stuff. But despite the agricultural finish it all worked fine and got me where I wanted to go with no drama's. I just cleaned the welds up with a flap disk and called it done. It all depends on the situation and the boat as to what suits.

I feel sad that the DIY attitude of sailing is diminishing.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

I feel sad that the DIY attitude of sailing is diminishing.

Why is using the wrong tool for the job preserving the DIY attitude? Not all DIY'ers think that way. What is sad are bird **** welds on a sailing boat when you don't like bird **** welds.