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Old 12-01-2016, 16:02   #16
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Re: Testing out hank-on sails

OP here. I actually want to switch to hank-on, but Mr. cthoops is unsure. I was hoping if there was an easy way to "try it on" so to speak, we could put this issue to rest in our household. Guess I'll just have to keep working on him.
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Old 12-01-2016, 16:36   #17
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Re: Testing out hank-on sails

When specing our Pdq 36 which I wanted to race I decide to go with hanks which would allow me to switch between a number 1 and #2 (no jokes) and keep the good sail shape .I also chose it because of the control you have on the sail mid change . When changing sails I undo the bottom 2 hanks and then bend on the new sail ,after that we drop the one sail and raise the other quickly that way we run bareheaded for a very short period of time usually less than a minute . I like the fact that you done have 40 feet of loose luff to contend with.
Of course the Outremer has roller furling but the jib is quite small (350 sq feet ) and I don't race it (yet)
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Old 12-01-2016, 17:58   #18
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Re: Testing out hank-on sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthoops View Post
OP here. I actually want to switch to hank-on, but Mr. cthoops is unsure. I was hoping if there was an easy way to "try it on" so to speak, we could put this issue to rest in our household. Guess I'll just have to keep working on him.
You can "sort of" try out a stay for hanks, by installing a Solent Stay, as jim Cate suggested. In lieu of just having a 2nd, bare, headstay made, & taking off your furler, temporarily, along with it's integral stay.
And if you like, in order to make the testing more closely mimic a true, converted headstay, you can temporarily "bastardize" the Solent Stay, by attaching it's lower end as close to your current, furling headstay, as is possible. Even, temporarily removing the furler''s drum if you like, during the trials.

The rationale behind adding the Solent stay is two fold.. In that it'll let you see (more or less) what it's like to sail with hank on jibs. And if you decide that you want to stay with your furler, you simply leave the Solent stay attached at it's top end, & move it's lower end aft, on the deck, & use it as a Cutter stay.
As described in my posts in this thread Removable Cutter Stay vs Solent Stay

Then, even if you decide to go with a bare headstay, long term, you can always keep the Solent or Staysail stay, so that you can shift gears more easily, in terms of what sail you're flying, & from which stay.

Ditto, if you decide to stay with a furler on your headstay. As again, a Solent Stay lets you shift gears pretty easily. As, generally, you can only roll up a furling headsail by about 30%, before it's shape is shot. So if you have a 135% on your furler, & have done this, but need to reduce sail area by another degree. Then you fully roll up the furling sail, & go to your Solent, which you've had made to be about 75% of your fore triangle.

And if the wind keeps building from there, then you have several options for heavy weather canvas. Including moving the Solent stay's Tack aft, & using it as a Staysail stay. Or leaving it wher it is, & hanking on your storm canvas.

PS: "Trying out" a headstay configured for hanks is pretty easy. In that you can remove your current headstay & furler, quite easily, without having to drop the mast. And then install a plain wire headstay, all in a couple of hours.
Also, while I've not read it, Practical Sailor has an article on adding Solent Stays in their Oct '15 issue, here http://www.practical-sailor.com/issu...y_11824-1.html
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Old 12-01-2016, 21:58   #19
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Re: Testing out hank-on sails

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
There are several drawbacks to your schemes:

Setting the storm jib flying (no stay, just a tack fitting and a halyard) is a disaster in high winds, either setting or striking the sail. And the problem of keeping the luff straight is even worse than when using the spinny halyard as a stay. All in all, totally unworkable as a storm setup.

Sorry to be so negative about your ideas, but until you have tried such schemes in anger, you can't believe how impractical they are!

Jim
Yes! I agree! I misread the post. Somehow I missed that it stated using the halyard as a stay.
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Old 13-01-2016, 02:52   #20
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Re: Testing out hank-on sails

I would get a stay made up in galvanized wire, quite cheap and if you want to go back to the roller you can keep it as a spare or for the storm jib. No actually I would just be ditching the roller and rigging a plain stay, but then I know how much I prefer hanked sails!
PS did you know you can reef them? Just get a second clew & tack eye and a line of grommets fitted above the foot and you can tie a reef in.
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Old 13-01-2016, 05:51   #21
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Re: Testing out hank-on sails

OP again. We're planning on long-distance cruising, so for us our options are a solent stay or removing the furler and going with hank-ons. I haven't done extensive research on installing a solent stay, but our anchor locker is immediately aft of our forestay and at 30' we don't have a particularly large foredeck to start with. Given the space limitations and the engineering that appears to be required for a solent stay, hank-on is looking rather appealing.

As I mentioned, I'm all for hank-ons (particularly given the size of our boat), but I was hoping to "try it out" so Mr. cthoops could see for himself (he's never sailed on a boat with hank-ons whereas I have).

Maybe rather than drift the thread, I'll start a new post about installing solent stays. Thanks again for all of the input.
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Old 13-01-2016, 07:46   #22
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Re: Testing out hank-on sails

Thanks all for the fast and excellent feedback. I learned long ago that not all ideas are good but a bad one might lead to something that works. Seems like a soilent stay is a great solution
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Old 16-01-2016, 06:20   #23
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Re: Testing out hank-on sails

There are ways to greatly simplify, as well as speed up, sail changes & sail handling, when working with hank on's.

- One option is to use a "Magazine", which, as I recall, is a section of proprietary metal track. Which is fitted & designed such that, you clip all of the piston hanks onto the Magazine. And when it comes time to put a new sail onto the headstay, you put the Matazine up next to the stay. Then withdrawing a piece of the unit. And in one fell swoop, all of the hanks of the new sail are attached to the stay.

So if you do this, & clip on the new sail in between a set of the lower hanks of the old sail, while it's still hoisted on the stay. Then to hoist the new sail, after having clipped on all of it's hanks. All you'd need do, is to drop the old sail. Unclip it's hanks. And attach the halyard & tack fitting... Then up she goes.

If memory serves, Jim Cate may have some experience with these, but I'm not 100% positive on this. And here's a marginal link to a page describing them Quick attachment release jib handling and stowage system - SMITH; GAILERD S.

- The other option for sail changes & handling, are to use an "Octopus", as developed by Carol Hasse of Port Townsend sails.
It's a length of rigging wire about 2' long. With a stainless ring on one end, & a snap shackle on the other. Plus a length of webbing about as long as the foot of the sail attached to it. With said piece of webbing having sewn on sail ties about every 2' along it's length.

The wire section being for the sails hanks, of course. And the webbing strip with built in sail ties, is used to corral/keep control of the body of the sail.
So that when you bring the new sail on deck, you put the section of rigging wire next to the stay, & clip everything on. Then, attach the sheets, halyard & tack fitting (after dropping the old sail on deck (into it's Octopus). And hoist away.
Plus, each Octopus is color coded to go with a specific sail, so that ID'ing them is quick & easy.

IIRC, both systems are covered in Brion Toss's The Rigger's Apprentice. Although I'd imagine that both he & Hasse are very familiar with both pieces of gear.

One last useful tool would be this book http://www.amazon.com/Singlehanded-S...s=andrew+evans
The author has distilled a LOT of single handed sailing knowledge from his own experiences. Plus a Huge amount more from BOC skippers, single handed Transpac racers, etc. And via text at least, he seems like a nice guy. You can find him over on Sailing Anarchy Forums, where, I think, the older edition of his book is downloadable for free. And I know for certain that you can find it in PDF via the San Francisco Single Handed Sailing Society (another good resource).

Regarding the anchor well on the foredeck, & Solent stay attachment conundrum.
All you need to do iin order to set up your chainplate, & tack fitting for a Solent stay, is to anchor a U-bolt through your stem (with the nuts on it set on top of a backing plate on the boat's bow). In or underneath of the chain locker.

Then run 2 pendants to the U-bolt, up through a notch cut into the anchor locker's lid. And one is to attach the Solent stay to, while the other functions as your "Tack".
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Old 19-01-2016, 11:49   #24
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Re: Testing out hank-on sails

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
Why go to hank on sails? I have been using them for 20 years and this year am purchasing a Schaefer roller furler and will go through a mighty effort to convert.

If you've ever had one get stuck in the foil, then you'll know why, it doesn't come down when you want.
As well, the sail cut, when reefed, loses a lot of its ability to power the boat efficiently.


Sent from SV Cloud Duster
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Old 19-01-2016, 12:12   #25
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Re: Testing out hank-on sails

I am finding this thread very interesting, and as always with the subject of roller furling leaves me with mixed feelings.

We have never liked roller furling and have eventually removed it from every boat we have owned that had it. But.....this year we finally decided to cave in and are having a new Harken furler installed on our Cape Dory 33.

We are hoping to leave this fall for full time (coastal) cruising. My husband will be 66 years old, and I am 62. In addition I have mild, early stage, relapsing/remitting MS. While my condition is mild and my relapses are very far apart, with very minimal symptoms during remissions, I have found that it has affected my balance to a small degree. Even so we were going to stick with the hank ons. But after some heart to hearts with other sailors in our age group, and with our rigger/sailmaker, we have decided that roller furling is an idea whose time has come for us.

Since we are going to coastal sailing we will always have the opportunity to choose our weather windows carefully. That being said, with the reliability of modern units being what they are, and considering our age and my health issues, if there is a failure on the foredeck we were persuaded that there is a better chance it will be a human failure than a gear failure at this stage of the game.

When I see people mention furling gear failures and discuss the simplicity of the hank ons (and the considerable expense we are going to for the new furling and headsail) it does make me question the decision for just a moment and long for a simple hank on sail.
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Old 19-01-2016, 12:15   #26
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Re: Testing out hank-on sails

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Originally Posted by Boatyarddog View Post
If you've ever had one get stuck in the foil, then you'll know why, it doesn't come down when you want.
As well, the sail cut, when reefed, loses a lot of its ability to power the boat efficiently.


Sent from SV Cloud Duster
With padding sewed into the luff the shape is not perfect but "best is the enemy of the good" as the padded reefed shape is not bad.

My primary concern is going up on the foredeck and trying to contain a heavy sail in high winds and then once that job is completed hank on a smaller one. There comes a point where a sail change is fairly daunting in a stiff blow.

Not sure what you mean about the sail stuck in the foil because with a furler why would you want to drop the sail except at the dock?
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