Synthetic Rigging for Discontinuous Rig

[Muaddib1116]

I have to replace my standing rigging this season. My boat has triple spreaders with discontinuous rigging. Is it feasible to switch to synthetic dux rigging with this setup? or does the issue of creep become too much of a hurdle for getting each length of the discontinuous rig the right length?

[Jim Cate]

In your place I would start by consulting with Colligo or some other professional organization that actually has experience with similar rigs. Advice from CF on such critical and highly technical subjects is kinda worrisome IMO.

Jim

[Muaddib1116]

I certainly wouldn't make any decisions like this solely off of internet advice, but I was just wondering if anyone knew it was possible or not.

[Breaking Waves]

It is 'possible', but tricky and non-optimal.

You have a pretty sophisticated boat (nice boat btw) - Dyneema standing rigging is really not for you. I would talk to someone like Southern Spars who will have a range of options available.

[Muaddib1116]

Thanks, that was my suspicion, based on the dyneema rigging installations I've seen on youtube. I think the stuff from southern spars is way more expensive than what I would want to do. I've seen it on a lot of the really high end rigs at the yard, but I think that level of product is not worth it for me. I think I'll shoot colligo an email, and see what they say. I'm betting they will confirm what you've said.

[jmh2002]

There are a few good threads on Sailing Anarchy about this process, and the pros and cons.

[Muaddib1116]

For replacing discontinuous rigging? or converting to dux rigging in general?

[40 South]

I did my Hunter with a B&R rig. 15 pieces of Dynice Dux in all! All terminated with turnbuckles. Sized correctly it has minimal creep.

[Benz]

I'd think you'd spend a bundle trying to convert the spreader-ends to something synthetic could lash/attach to, which added to the cost of the rope would put you over the cost of doing it in rod or wire. I'm a big believer in synthetic shrouds, but there are applications (like a high-tension tall rig) where rod's the best (assuming you can't afford ECSIX).

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by 40 South

I did my Hunter with a B&R rig. 15 pieces of Dynice Dux in all! All terminated with turnbuckles. Sized correctly it has minimal creep.

Very interesting, thank you!

[fxykty]

The rigging of discontinuous shrouds and masts with multiple spreaders can absolutely be done with DUX, Vectran, PBO and several other proprietary fibres. But they are generally not suitable for cruising as they need professional installation, inspection and frequent replacement (6 months to 1 year for racing programmes for example, or one round the world race).

As a DIY example with our cat, we have a double spreader plus jumpers rig with 6 independent diamond stays and 2 jumper stays, plus a forestay, one set of cap shrouds, and a pair of running backstays. The mast is tightly rigged with about 3* of prebend.

We paid for and received professional opinion for cruising purposes, which was to use fibre for forestay, cap shrouds and running backstays and to stay with wire for the diamonds and jumpers that hold the mast in column and prebend.

The forestay is a proprietary Doyle Stratis cable that has a 3-5 year lifespan. We’re OK with that as it is an easy replacement.

The cap shrouds and running backstays are uncovered DUX. They should last 8-10 years at minimum if we are careful about chafe. In retrospect it would have been good to get them overbraided with Technora but that wasn’t an option where we did the work, and the cost would have doubled.

[Rucksta]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I have to replace my standing rigging this season. My boat has triple spreaders with discontinuous rigging. Is it feasible to switch to synthetic dux rigging with this setup? or does the issue of creep become too much of a hurdle for getting each length of the discontinuous rig the right length?

I went through the same exercise a couple of years ago.
Triple in line spreaders with jumpers. Discontinuous cap shrouds.
The idea of being able to self maintain and carry material for replacement was attractive.

The "had to" driver was the 10 year rule which seems to be a marine industry invention or
perhaps a professional liability issue rather than a hull & rig insurance issue.

The cost of replacing the rigging screws and terminations was a hurdle.
Then there was the insurance company.
They were less happy with textile than they were with rod.
One proviso was the textile splices were done professionally which negated much of the saving as I was planning DIY with oversite from a rigger.

Replaced forestay with dyform to accommodate new furler.
Reheaded the diagonals.
Same for same replacement backstay & check stays with textile.

This year we will do the runners (textile) and possibly recycle the rod forestay into lower cap shrouds.

Insurer wants a rigging report every two years.
Rigger is OK for sign off with a trip aloft every year for inspection and update to the service plan.

A couple of hundred $ a year on inspection keeps me, the insurer & the rigger
comfortable with a rig that still has some very aged components.

Should the rig come down the insurance payout will be minimal once the age factor is applied to the spars - depreciation.

The purpose of covering the rig is to repair the collateral damage it causes if falls over. (some say when)

Hope this is relevant to your decision.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by fxykty

...fibre for forestay...

The forestay is a proprietary Doyle Stratis cable that has a 3-5 year lifespan. We’re OK with that as it is an easy replacement.

I forgot to ask you in another thread, what was your primary reasoning for this? Just to remove weight, not only for the forestay but the associated gear too? Some other additional benefits that I may not have considered?

If I understand what you did was remove the 'conventional' furler drum (and the aluminium headstay foil too - that is the bigger item to get rid of in my mind - not only for the weight but for headstay sag too), and go to a a fibre forestay and single line furling? Is the headsail attached with soft hanks, or?

I had been thinking about something similar for a while for a future boat since I prefer blade headsails that are not 'roller reefed' - only 'roller furled' when not in use.

How are you finding this overall setup now that you have put some miles on it? Any negatives that you do not like?

Thanks

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

For replacing discontinuous rigging? or converting to dux rigging in general?

Both, if I recall correctly. I'll try to find the threads if you think they may be helpful

[Muaddib1116]

Thanks, that would be helpful.

Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong. My current rig is wire, not rod, and I think if I go with SS replacement, I'll just go with wire again. My thought was that dux would give me reduced weight and that it would be easy to carry spare premade sections. But since I would probably want a professional installation, it would probably not save any money, and possibly it would be more expensive. Since it's a cruising rig, I'm guessing the weight savings is not a huge game changer that I must have.

Maybe I should just go with wire replacements, and carry some dyneema and fittings to make emergency sections if needed.