Sock or furling? Asymmetric or code 0?

[Quebramar]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Furling, no “story” needed

Agree. We usually sail as a couple, I go on deck and handle the genny and sock, not difficult but as many pointed out, need to understand when/how to handle each line. My wife is at the back to adjust the sheet at the moment the sail fills, it is sometimes quite a quick blow with lots of power.
Boat is 37’ and genny approx 1030 sq ft.
I would not handle it alone unless the sea is calm and the wind is less than 8 kts, something that is not usual in my area.

[jleeglenn]

After scanning through the posts below, most are about how to rig & unrig the sail...….valuable perspectives but the variety of opinions indicate that there is no right or easy answer. Practicing & refining your own technique will still be your best avenue to success.

What I couldn't find though, was the discussion about what do you want the sail for: more upwind angles or more downwind angles. There is an inherent difference between the best wind angles for a Code 0 & those for most things typically called an asymmetrical spinnaker. The choice of desired wind angles is a fundamental decision to be made before working on the best way to fly.

Given that you're sailing the Chesapeake which means a lot of directly downwind or directly upwind conditions, not an easy choice. My perspective is that it's a lot more fun to get a boat powered up in light upwind conditions than it is to get it moving in light downwind conditions. Correspondingly, I would chose the Code 0 for that purpose.

I would suggest consulting several local sailmakers for their perspective on both sail choice & rigging choice. They can help with the technique aspect as well.

[Catamaranbliss]

Hi-
Anyone have thoughts on MAIOR FURLER?
SEEMS KINDA REVOLUTIONARY?
Great thread, I'm trying to figure out the soft furler world (another thread) and this came up-Tim at TMM Yacht Charter in Tortolla, who I actually really trust, he's neck deep with it all day, thinks it might be great.
its made by Ubi Maior Italia, and of course like its always cool new thing vs. more time tested....
https://www.sail-world.com/news/2149...Furling-System
Since probably very few have actually used it, I for one would be interested in what my brothers and sisters think might be the downside outfitting a cat for full time cruising......thanks!

[Markhunter1097]

Originally Posted by FabioC

Deckchute is an interesting idea, it is basically the adaptation to big boats of what is used in skiffs with large asymmetric (like the 49er). After watching the videos, though, I am skeptical, as there seems to be a lot of friction and power on the drop line that goes through the chute during the take down. Also, the sail goes into the chute at a weird angle. We sail a 49er as well in addition to a larger boat, and when the drop line gets at an angle and there is friction, it is a battle to get the sail into the chute. The 49er has a big asymmetric for the boat, but still much smaller than an asymmetric on a 40 footer, so I am skeptical of the forces in play in a larger boat.

I would be curious to try the system, though, it is interesting. Anybody has direct experience with it on a 40 footer or larger boat?

Try applying McLube SailkotePlus to your 49 Er kite and sock, if you are seeing friction something is wrong

[Markhunter1097]

Don’t leave the code zero up when not using it, it is not designed that way

Originally Posted by FabioC

This is one of my favorite topics...
I have an asymmetric spinnaker on a sock and a furling Code 0, I fly both from the bowsprit. This season in particular we have done a lot of practice with both of them, shorthanded, single-handed, and with full crew).

Here is my experience (I understand the Code 0 is technically an asymmetric, but here I call "Asymmetric" the asymmetric spinnaker only).

Asymmetric spinnaker with sock. Initially, we did not like it too much because the sock had a tendency of getting stuck on the forestay in the jibes (this may be specific to my boat, since there is very little room between the spin halyard and the top of the forestay). However, this problem is solvable by improving the timing of the jibe and a few other tricks.

Overall, we now see the advantage of the sock when shorthanded or single-handed. With full crew, it is really a wash, because an asymmetric is not that difficult to handle the "conventional" way either, even in high wind (i.e., no sock, directly in/out of the bag).

Furling Code 0. My experience with the furling Code 0 is very different. Since it flies from the bowsprit, it has to be rigged on the dock and is kept aloft throughout the outing.

The big problem with the furling Code 0 is that the top of the sail tends to unfurl on its own the moment the wind increases. The leech of the Code 0 is rather full and does not furl tightly, so it potentially catches wind and unfurls no matter how careful you are. This problem is exacerbated in the Code 0 I have, which is cut rather poorly (I'll have it recut this winter), but is intrinsic to some extent to the shape of the sail, which has a full leech by definition). Once the sail is partially unfurled, you have no other option but to unfurl it completely and then furl it back, which may be annoying to do if you are going upwind in high winds (that's when the unfurling happens). In high wind and single-handed or short handed, the situation can easily degenerate into a battle with the Code 0 (the furling drums for Code 0, even the best ones, are relatively primitive and have a tendency to malfunction if there is stress on the furling line or the torsion line). In one occasion, we ended up having to take the sail down the "conventional" way rather than furling it. In that situation, the sail is much more difficult to handle on deck than a conventional jib, because the rigid luff does not allow to flake it as you would with a jib.

Overall, I have to say, unless you are an ultra-competitive racing sailor, I question the usefulness of the Code 0 if you have an asymmetric with a sock. The Code 0 covers some angles that the asymmetric does not, but also has a narrower wind range and does not do as well in the angles were you can fly the asymmetric. In general you'll fly the asymmetric much more. You are much better off having a larger genoa or having two asymmetrics (for example, one for low wind and one for high wind). If you have to choose only one flying sail, the Asymmetric with the sock wins hands down.

I'll have my Code 0 recut and give it one more try, but overall I would not recommend a cruising furling Code 0 (one of the high tech, extremely expensive racing Code 0, especially the new ones without a rigid torsion line, is another story, but the cost is not justifiable unless you are an ultra-competitive racing program).

[Happ]

My last 2 Multihulls had downwind sails. My first had an Asymmetric that was taken down by hand. My second one had a furling Screecher. I wouldn't have anything on a boat any longer that wasn’t on a furler. The reason is simple. I can do it from the cockpit. I can also due it in heavy weather or at night.

The main difference between an asymmetrical and a Code 0 is the apparent wind angle they are useful in. A Code 0 can be used at around 50deg to about 120deg. An Asymmetric is good from about 60deg to about 150deg. The sails can be made bigger or smaller and with different weight cloth to allow for wind strength.