Sock or furling? Asymmetric or code 0?

[wingssail]

Code zero sails were originally designed for racing boats which wanted an upwind sail bigger than a genoa. They are flatter than an typical asymmetrical, and generally smaller in area. By racing rules their mid-girth measurement must be at least .75 of the foot measurement (smaller then that they are considered to be a genoa and subject to rating penalty). Most now days are just about exactly that size while an asymmetrical spinnaker is often cut much larger and fuller.

So, for offwind work an asymmetrical is better.

As to furling, we don't have much experience with that; we simply dispense with furlers or socks for our spinnakers and take them down on the foredeck blanketed by the mainsail (we are double handed)

However, I am attracted to the top down furler approach, and by the same token, don't much care for socks, having turned the last one we had into a laundry bag many years ago.

[davecalvert]

The Code 0s we build for catamarans are in the 3 oz. to 5 oz. material weight. These sails have a 50% mid girth so, like the reachers of the past but, with the anti torque luff ropes. Using cloth in this weight, they stay furled well without the unfurling problems of nylon sails in a breeze. These use the spinnaker points of attachment, spinnaker halyard, the end of a bow sprit, and spinnaker blocks aft. The area is less than an asymmetrical spinnaker but, with the draft forward, flat leech, will have a lot of power per sq. ft. These Code 0s can work well close reaching, in light winds, and are powerful broad reaching sails.
This is the most easy to deploy off wind sail you can have.
Most husband and wife crews or single handlers love the conveyance.

[David Sandowich]

Very good insights on both side of the issue. I go back to the original post..." light summer winds on the Chesapeake" ...In my opinion and experiences on the Bay a asym and sock does the trick. It allows me to sail down wind when other wise I would be motoring. i sail a 42 ft boat with sock and use a tacker and release the tack to bring it down. As has been said with practice rigging it, using it and dousing it becomes very easy and routine . It is a light air sail.... leave it up when the wind rises and it will turn into a monster. I checked into moving to a code 0 and the cost alone was prohibitive for me. Also .. it is not going to be used very weekend. I sail weekly on the Bay and have used it probably 5 times this summer.
if you are only going to be going down wind for 30 - 60 minutes in my opinion its not worth the effort but if you have a long down wind run it changes everything. I had to be creative in where to store the bag but it has worked out fine.

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by singlespeed

Do you really want to go up on the foredeck to pull down a sock in a freshening breeze, sailing singlehanded?

You fly iy in light air which generally means flatter seas etc so going up forward is no big deal as a singlehander IMHO. I'm disabled and do it all the time.

[Aaaskypilot]

32 ft Gulf, Use a sock with my 3/4 oz asym. 1-10 kt. Easy on deck. In 10-15 kts. Use my 1 1/2oz. code 0. On a furler from cockpit, too rough on deck then.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by singlespeed

Do you really want to go up on the foredeck to pull down a sock in a freshening breeze, sailing singlehanded?

You turn the boat downwind, slack the tack line, and pull the sock down behind the main.

Personally I don't fly a kite when single handing, and with two up, we just don't need the sock (our rule, for symmetrical kites, double handed, is: don't put it up in over 20kts and always take it down if the wind is over 25. We have not established a rule for the assym kites. Our last sock is now a laundry bag.

[Dr. D]

I'm glad I started this thread. More factors involved than I knew of. This forum is a good source!

[FULLCIRCLE331]

My sock now resides in my den. On my Beneteau 331 it was more trouble than it was worth. I considered just dropping the asymmetrical without the sock but went to furler. I single hand most of the time. Twice the sock got hung up coming down. No problems with the furler there was a little bit of a learning curve to start with.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by letoile

I fly a gennacker as often as possible single handed. I have a snuffer sock but removed it because of jams. I now simply rig without the sock and hoist and douse when blanketed by the main, all done from the cockpit with great ease and control and the sail ends up in a companion way bag. If I had the room and a permanent bow sprit I would go for the Furling set up and agree with the supporters of this system, 'If its rigged I'll use it more" .

But one other system has caught my interest and is a simple install compared to the furling system. Deckchute...here is a link with all the info and nice comprehesive video.

DeckChute - MyBoatsGear.com

Looks to me like the sail flogs whilst they are taking it down, and catches pretty much everything it can on the boat.

On a cruisers boat it would last 1 take down before getting torn. Otherwise it does look interesting.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

You fly iy in light air which generally means flatter seas etc so going up forward is no big deal as a singlehander IMHO. I'm disabled and do it all the time.

But the time you need it down quickly is when the wind had suddenly risen to 25kts plus and it's all getting hairy... That's why I furl. Lots of halyard tension, very little on the sheet, and wind it in...

[Nicholson58]

Nothing new about deckchute. Spinnaker launchers have been around for a long time on small boats and beach cats. I have one on my Tornado. Halyard from the head over the block, down the mast, through Spinlock, through the large cringle in the trampoline, into the spinnaker sock aft end, out the sock forward end, up through the loop 1/3 from the bottom of the sail, tie to the loop 1/3 from the top. There is a tack line internal to the forward spar to pull the tack to the end of the spar and cam cleat it. The dousing sock is incorporated into the spar on the new boats. Nice videos, I love my Tornado photos follow the videos.

I’m not sure how this works on a larger spinnaker, probably wet and heavy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NldeTAH2160

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OyoN9B9lCT8

19 min hoist, 23.40 douse

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0vPrb_ydghA

Good video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi9yJ783NtA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9-cEgelBpKU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UHsEME1w5cY

[catarch]

You should consider a cable-less code 0. I had a torsion cable on my Hanse 415 and now I have a cable less unit on my x4.9/ The cable less unit is far easier to handle and store. It furls quite easily and it is much easier to fly when short handed. Simply hoist the sail tacked on the sprit. Then when ready unfurl it from the cockpit using the continuous line. We also have an A4 and it is much more work to use short handed.

Obviously the two sails are for different angles of sail but unless we are running very deep the code 0 is what we use. Racing is a different story as we will use whatever is faster and we have crew then.

[Surrymark]

I've had experience with one code zero, and one sock. I think the code zero depends a a lot on the cut of the asym. Mine might have been too full. Pulling out the sail was a dream, but the furler nearly always twisted when re-wrapped, and we had to lay the sail out on a shore to re-furl so it could be deployed again. A total drag, and waste of money. The sock is simple enough. After years of dismissing autopilots I recently installed a CDP tiller pilot. That makes soloing on the foredeck even easier.

[Haddock1]

Originally Posted by FabioC

This is one of my favorite topics...
I have an asymmetric spinnaker on a sock and a furling Code 0, I fly both from the bowsprit. This season in particular we have done a lot of practice with both of them, shorthanded, single-handed, and with full crew).

Here is my experience (I understand the Code 0 is technically an asymmetric, but here I call "Asymmetric" the asymmetric spinnaker only).

Asymmetric spinnaker with sock. Initially, we did not like it too much because the sock had a tendency of getting stuck on the forestay in the jibes (this may be specific to my boat, since there is very little room between the spin halyard and the top of the forestay). However, this problem is solvable by improving the timing of the jibe and a few other tricks.

Overall, we now see the advantage of the sock when shorthanded or single-handed. With full crew, it is really a wash, because an asymmetric is not that difficult to handle the "conventional" way either, even in high wind (i.e., no sock, directly in/out of the bag).

Furling Code 0. My experience with the furling Code 0 is very different. Since it flies from the bowsprit, it has to be rigged on the dock and is kept aloft throughout the outing.

The big problem with the furling Code 0 is that the top of the sail tends to unfurl on its own the moment the wind increases. The leech of the Code 0 is rather full and does not furl tightly, so it potentially catches wind and unfurls no matter how careful you are. This problem is exacerbated in the Code 0 I have, which is cut rather poorly (I'll have it recut this winter), but is intrinsic to some extent to the shape of the sail, which has a full leech by definition). Once the sail is partially unfurled, you have no other option but to unfurl it completely and then furl it back, which may be annoying to do if you are going upwind in high winds (that's when the unfurling happens). In high wind and single-handed or short handed, the situation can easily degenerate into a battle with the Code 0 (the furling drums for Code 0, even the best ones, are relatively primitive and have a tendency to malfunction if there is stress on the furling line or the torsion line). In one occasion, we ended up having to take the sail down the "conventional" way rather than furling it. In that situation, the sail is much more difficult to handle on deck than a conventional jib, because the rigid luff does not allow to flake it as you would with a jib.

Overall, I have to say, unless you are an ultra-competitive racing sailor, I question the usefulness of the Code 0 if you have an asymmetric with a sock. The Code 0 covers some angles that the asymmetric does not, but also has a narrower wind range and does not do as well in the angles were you can fly the asymmetric. In general you'll fly the asymmetric much more. You are much better off having a larger genoa or having two asymmetrics (for example, one for low wind and one for high wind). If you have to choose only one flying sail, the Asymmetric with the sock wins hands down.

I'll have my Code 0 recut and give it one more try, but overall I would not recommend a cruising furling Code 0 (one of the high tech, extremely expensive racing Code 0, especially the new ones without a rigid torsion line, is another story, but the cost is not justifiable unless you are an ultra-competitive racing program).

What about a furling Asymmetric just to complicate things

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Dr. D

A consideration is that I will mostly be single handling the boat. Given that, which type of sail and raising/dousing might do me best?

Furling, no “story” needed