Re-using stay-loks?

[andypag]

I'm looking at a boat (catamaran) with s/s rigging which is in good condition but coming up to 20 years old. Insurance quotes are all coming back saying the rigging needs to be reviewed for cover.

Is it possible/wise/technically acceptable to reuse the stay loks that are on the wires and just replace the wire rope to save some money. The cost of the stay loks/turnbuckles on 10mm cable really adds up fast. Would a rigger sign this off for the insurance company?

[model 10]

With new cones you should be good.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by andypag

I'm looking at a boat (catamaran) with s/s rigging which is in good condition but coming up to 20 years old. Insurance quotes are all coming back saying the rigging needs to be reviewed for cover.

Is it possible/wise/technically acceptable to reuse the stay loks that are on the wires and just replace the wire rope to save some money. The cost of the stay loks/turnbuckles on 10mm cable really adds up fast. Would a rigger sign this off for the insurance company?

Sure, They are reusable with new cones like mentioned previously. Some people even reuse the old wire, using longer lengths to replace shorter ones. Failures usually occur due to corrosion inside the fittings so that gets redone.

[Thumbs Up]

You can re-use them. You could just get a rigging survey done as is and maybe it would pass. Or you could order wire with swaged terminals. By the time you factor in the new cones and formers for the Staloks, plus the extra labor cost for the rigger, you might do better with swaged fittings. When planning to reuse Staloks there is always the chance that one of them will have a problem (galled threads), which could cause a delay, which will cost you more. When contemplating new rigging you need to consider more than just the wire, you have to evaluate the chainplates, toggles, turnbuckles, mast tangs, pins etc. You don't need to replace the turnbuckles to switch to swaged fittings. Sta-loks are considered more reliable than swages, especially for the lower terminals. I would look at ordering shrouds with swaged uppers and new Stalok lowers. I think that most boats come stock with all swaged fittings. How old is the cat? Maybe the rigging is newer than you think (since it already has Staloks)

[Boatguy30]

It depends on the condition and service history. A sta lok 20 years in the tropics, for example, will likely need replacement. It’s impossible to say without first disassembling each one to determine what’s useable and what isn’t.

Where is the boat?

[andypag]

Thanks all. It's original rigging from 1999. I was surprised they used stay loks then too. The boat had been in the Med and the solent. Not sailed much by all accounts.

How does a rig get approved for insurance? Does it need an inspection or does the work have to be done by the person that certifies it?

[Jim Cate]

Sta-Loks and other mechanical terminals are reused by thousands of riggers and yotties. Re-use is the primary reason for their purchase for most folks. I believe that their approval by Lloyds includes re-use, but don't have documentation for that.

It is very hard to find ANY documentation of their failing when re-used.

But the bottom line if you are worried about insurance is... ask the insurer! It is their somewhat arbitrary decision to allow re-use or not, no matter what a rigger or internet expert says.

Jim

[roverhi]

Rigged our Westsail with Norseman's and StaLoks in '75. AFAIK they are still on the boat with at least one change of the wire and maybe more.

[gjordan]

In my research I discovered that there are early Stay-locks and newer style Stay-locks. I never did figure out how to tell the difference or if they take the same cones or not, but you might email some photos to a rigger (better it be an older rigger) and see what they say. I think Jim Cate had some information on this. Grant.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by gjordan

In my research I discovered that there are early Stay-locks and newer style Stay-locks. I never did figure out how to tell the difference or if they take the same cones or not, but you might email some photos to a rigger (better it be an older rigger) and see what they say. I think Jim Cate had some information on this. Grant.

True statement!

The 1974 build Palmer Johnson that we bought in 1983 had the "early" Sta-Loks. When I re-rigged in 1984 (5?) the cones that were available did not fit, so the change over was somewhere in that time period. My undocumented belief is that the changeover was in the earlier part of that time range because by 1984 no one had the old cones in stock and Sta Lok themselves could not suply them.

However, it is easy to tell them apart... sorta: the early cones were made of brass (r some other yellow metal) and all the later ones were stainless.

Jim

[B-Baysailer]

If I remember right the old sta-lok fitting the socket had 6 sides and the newer ones have 4

[JPA Cate]

Guys, these mechanical swages are very easy to use, and retains your ability to change one wire at a time. What's to not like?

Ann

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

True statement!

The 1974 build Palmer Johnson that we bought in 1983 had the "early" Sta-Loks. When I re-rigged in 1984 (5?) the cones that were available did not fit, so the change over was somewhere in that time period. My undocumented belief is that the changeover was in the earlier part of that time range because by 1984 no one had the old cones in stock and Sta Lok themselves could not suply them.

After taking one of these apart today it seems my boat has some of the old style with bronze/brass? and 6 sides. The cone is shorter, so I wonder if it used a different angle? Anyway I guess there is no real way to use these fittings?

Even though it would be possible to make new cones with a metal lathe I suppose they are probably not worth salvaging :-/

[JPA Cate]

Sean, if you write to Sta-Lok and ask them to provide you with the dimensions for the size you need, and the type of metal required, then you could get the new ones made up at a machine shop, or do it yourself, if you have those skills. The outer, stainless parts should be fine. They are heftily constructed. I hope they can help you out.



Ann

[Manateeman]

Talk to Tylaska about the cones.
Can you get the formers out.?
Photos of the insides and threads please if in question.
How much rust, pitting at the bottom of the socket after you get the formers out.
We trust mechanical fittings and would not use swaged fittings at all.
The above posts are correct about old vs new style but please call Tylaska .
Mark