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Old 20-01-2008, 19:17   #1
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New to splicing question

Hi;
We need to replace most of our running rigging. so, I bought some Sampson XLS braid, some Wichard snap shackles, and a splicing kit.

After trying things out on some old line first (wow, that was hard), I sat down to do my first two splices. The Wichard shackles have the thimble built-in, but this makes the required eye very small.

My first attempt was with 3/8 line, and everything went fine, except there is no core in the line that wraps the thimble. I thought I read somewhere that this is ok for this kind of line (Class 1), but I would like to have everything 100% as good as I can make it. Is this a problem? Any ideas on what I am doing wrong to not have core in the eye?

The other issue is how in the *$&(*#&$ do I get a good slice using these shackles, with larger line? Tee Wichard model 2493 is supposedly good for up to 12mm line, but when I tried to do this with 7/16 line (something like 11.5mm) it is darn near impossible to do step 7, reinserting the core into the cover, as the fid diameter plus everything else is greater than the inside diameter of the shackle. I did get it done after 4 tries, and going to the next smaller fid, but it was a mess, and then the eye ended up being too small (not sure why, but there was not room to completely bury the expose core, so I get to try again.

Any tips before I try again? I was using the instructions that Samson gives with the kit, and the book I also bought from them.

Thanks in advance,

Chris
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Old 21-01-2008, 03:06   #2
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Old 21-01-2008, 04:03   #3
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Another all be it unorthodox method is to "stitch" the running line. The way I do it is to get some uv resistant heat shrink, a high quality sail thread, palm and needle. first put the heat shrink on. Pass the line through the fitting and then double it back about 100 mm. Now literally stitch the two sections of line together. Use patience and look up on "ye olde type rope stitching methods " (used for standing rigging when attaching deadeyes). Slide the heat shrink over the whole lot when you are confident that it is secure and heat. Very strong and very neat.
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Old 21-01-2008, 05:48   #4
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Your right it is a bitch. I bought a set of the splicing tools. Make sure you have the fid pusher! Also you can taper the rope put into the fid and then run a longer section and use a smaller fid to get it thru. Then get a good pair of leather gloves. All in all, splicing is not one of my favorite things to do but there is much satisfaction in having it done. New line helps. I can't believe you actually got one of the old lines spliced.

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Old 21-01-2008, 08:43   #5
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Gord;

Yep, that is the culprit. That, and my inexperience. Maybe those Wichard's were not the best idea.

Any consensus on if it is ok to not have the core present in the loop over the thimble?

Chris
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Old 21-01-2008, 15:19   #6
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I just got off of the phone with Greg from Wichard. He told me that:

1: I should not have to feed the fid through the eye
2: I need core in the eye.

So it is back to the drawing board. I'll try again tonight, and see how things come out.

Chris
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Old 21-01-2008, 15:30   #7
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Old 21-01-2008, 16:49   #8
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Ah - technology! I used to enjoy splicing 3-strand.
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Old 21-01-2008, 23:11   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witzgall View Post
I just got off of the phone with Greg from Wichard. He told me that:

1: I should not have to feed the fid through the eye
2: I need core in the eye.

So it is back to the drawing board. I'll try again tonight, and see how things come out.

Chris
I think Greg may have given you a bum steer. XLS is a double braid so to do it to maximum retained strength you will need to get core inside you eye, which generally means you'll need to get a fid thru the fitting or use a puller type fid. Not so much 'strength' as such but having the core in there will give better wear and ad to the overall strength a bit but helping the cover stay in form (rounder) better.

Basically XLS is a polyester double braided rope i.e a braided polyester core with a braided polyester cover. Ropes like this take the load roughly equally between the cover and core so lose 1 and you've lost 1/2 the strength. BUT this is fine as the load will be sheared by both 'legs' of the splice. 50% of the load in one leg and 50% in the other so with the cover only (which is 50% of the ropes total load) times 2 legs we are back at full strength again. You do lose a little with each splice as the fibres are being bent a bit out of shape. With a good splice work on losing 15% of the ropes total load, bad splice can be more, a lot more.

NOTE: Ropes with Spectra (and the rest fancy cores) look similar but are core dependant ropes and must be treated / spliced differently. DO NOT USE THE SAME SPLICE ON A CORE DEPENDANT ROPE AS A STANDARD DOUBLE BRAID. MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT ROPE YOU ARE SPLICING BEFORE YOU START. Very very important.

Hints for new splicers (I've trained more than a couple) -
Practice practice practice and then a smidgen more practice. All of a sudden 'CLICK' and it'll falling to place in your head.
Don't practice on old ropes, why make it hard for yourself.
Don't get stressed. If you're get frustrated take a long cool glass of 'calm down' then get back into it. Stressing is bad and does not help.
Start with simple loops before getting jiggy with dropping in thimbles or fittings. This way your head will know the basics before you have to get more specific with lengths and so on that come when fitting fittings.

I'm guessing your looking at Samsons splicing instructions for a Class 1 Double Braid, hopefully as that's what your trying to do. Not sure what Fids you have so I'm going to work with tubular types here.

The fitting has to be slide over the cover between steps 4 and 5. If a open type thimble you can slide that in right at the end before the final bury.

In step 6 you bury the cover into the core and taper the cover. Once tapered slide the core back over the cover so the end of the tapered cover just disappears into the core. FIX the splice somehow there by using a clamp or put a pin or 2 thru where the core is over the cover. This helps stop things sliding around while you do the tricky core into cover bit. It's also good for when reaching for the beer so the bloody thing doesn't fall apart, it is very fragile at this stage. This way is a subtle difference from the Samson way.

Step 7, known in the trade as 'The Prick', so rest assured even us pros have issues here sometimes. The fid used here doesn't want to be a tight fit, use one size down if required. Tape end of rope to help hold it together and grip in the fid. Hopefully your fitting is sitting in the zone marked 'cover' in the instructions, it should be. Slide fid in and push it through the cover and fitting, it can be tight sometimes but should be do able (note comment about stress above). It is just a case of perseverance unfortunately. Once the fid is through the fitting it should get easy again.

You have picked one of the trickier things to do straight off the bat but Samsons instructions aren't too bad and your perseverance will be rewarded.

I hope that all makes some sense. Ask for clarification if you like. It is hard to write this in an easy way sorry.

Long answer short - practice with loops and then get jiggy with tight fittings.
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