New Sails

[steve.garlick]

Wow, I'm amazed at the price difference. I've just bought 3 new CXT cruise laminate tri-radial sails for a Bowman 40 from a UK Sails loft in Turkey for Euro 6000. This seems way cheaper than the US prices.

[silversailor]

I spent much of the Fall shopping for a new main for my Hanse 370. While I'm primarily a cruiser, I do the weekly Club races and several long distance (65 nm+) races each year. After receiving suggestions and quotes from all the big names and 10-12 smaller lofts, I found that about half were quoting sails manufactured by China Sail Factory. After further research, I found that CSF was a very high tech sail manufacturer that through reduced labor and material cost can provide an excellent product to sailmakers (no direct sales, only to sailmakers). The sailmaker designs the sail and specifies exactly how it will be built. Interestingly, only one sailmaker, Island Planet, acknowledged up front that this was their source. I worked closely with Dave at IP and placed my order. At my request, the new main will not be delivered until about Feb. Great price, great service (so far). Hope I'll be able to report "great sail" come spring.

[Dockhead]

The rest of the story . . .

It has a happy ending . . .

I ended up replacing all my rigging. On top of replacing all my electronics and refinishing my hull, there was no money left for new sails which anyway were looking like double my budget.

So I took my existing sails to the North Sails guy in Cowes to see if he could fix them up a little.

For 1200 pounds (less than $2000), he had them laundered by some mysterious process which made them as white as clouds, replaced all the UV sacrificial stuff, replaced all the clews and heads, and recut them to restore the shape.

I don't recognize them -- they are like new sails. Weather helm -- gone. They are like bloody wings. My optimum beating angle used to be 37 degrees, and it could be a lot of work to get trimmed out to sail at 37. I am not sure what it is now, but I was flying at 32 degrees today, making 8 knots in about 10 knots of true wind (16-17 apparent). With 6 people, all their luggage, and 1000 liters of water on board. I was gobsmacked. Best $2k I ever spent on the boat.

I suppose that won't last too long as they will stretch out again, but I will sure enjoy it while it lasts. I would be surprised if I get less than two more seasons out of them. How glad I am that I didn't blow $60k on new sails this year!

[UKEngland]

Apologies for dragging up an old thread, but I want to clarify a couple of points on this thread.

UK Sailmakers (previously Uk Halsey) do not use China Sail Factory, nor any other low cost generic loft.

CSF like everyone to believe the big brands use them, but it isn't true. Whilst all lofts are sensibly moving production to lower cost countries it is usually in their own lofts who produce at their own standards. It is certainly the case with UK.

UK Sailmakers = UK Halsey and any other derivation and UK sails are again available in the UK.

Thanks.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Bash

Be careful about HydraNet. Their strongest cloth, HN480, is rated for boats just a tad smaller than yours. Here's their chart: Hydra Net® - Sailcloth Technology by DIMENSION-POLYANT - Sailcloth and laminates for high performance sailing and polyestersailcloth for surf

This is why you're paying the big money. The loads on large sails require different cloth than boats with less than 1,000 square feet of sail area would use. Big-boat sailcloth is big-boat expensive. But you'll stretch your way through little-boat cloths within a year.

Given this, I wonder if sailmakers are salivating at the trend toward mega-production boats being more affordable than ever. Sure, you can afford the Jeanneau/Beneteau/Hanse/etc 55+ foot sailboat, but at those prices I bet they come with cheaper sails. Wait until they are blown out in 1-2 years....

Of course, sailmakers probably aren't making huge profits on these either since much of cost goes into cloth, right?

[UKEngland]

Just to clarify further.

It seems UK Sailmakers - ex UK Halsey has and does use CSF.

Furthermore their (UK) materials are very cheap. They keep pushing DP to create cheaper and cheaper laminates / cloths.

The underlying laminate for Tape Drive especially so. It is meant to be impervius to water - hence protecting the sail and the tapes that are stuck to it.

Unfortunately it is NOT. So expect your tapes to fall off after a while.

I have left the UK group. Poor quality sails, even worse management trying to pull the wool over customers eyes.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The rest of the story . . .

It has a happy ending . . .

I ended up replacing all my rigging. On top of replacing all my electronics and refinishing my hull, there was no money left for new sails which anyway were looking like double my budget.

So I took my existing sails to the North Sails guy in Cowes to see if he could fix them up a little.

For 1200 pounds (less than $2000), he had them laundered by some mysterious process which made them as white as clouds, replaced all the UV sacrificial stuff, replaced all the clews and heads, and recut them to restore the shape.

I don't recognize them -- they are like new sails. Weather helm -- gone. They are like bloody wings. My optimum beating angle used to be 37 degrees, and it could be a lot of work to get trimmed out to sail at 37. I am not sure what it is now, but I was flying at 32 degrees today, making 8 knots in about 10 knots of true wind (16-17 apparent). With 6 people, all their luggage, and 1000 liters of water on board. I was gobsmacked. Best $2k I ever spent on the boat.

I suppose that won't last too long as they will stretch out again, but I will sure enjoy it while it lasts. I would be surprised if I get less than two more seasons out of them. How glad I am that I didn't blow $60k on new sails this year!

You should get three years never mind seasons, its going to be well spent money.

[rgleason]

Thanks Dockhead and others for a good thread. Estarzinger I've read your comments very carefully and found your web page helpful:
Sails
These sections:

31. What recommendations do you have on sail cloth?
31a. New sail cloth developments
84. Latest thinking on sail cloth especially hydranet and 3di.

We have had just had a 12 year old Marathon 3DL 140% Genoa delaminate enough (bubble on rolling up) so that it appears we will need a new jib next year. It has been a great sail with extraordinary shape-holding even now, but it has been plaqued with a tendency towards mildew which was largely solved with cleaning and heavy doseage of McLube in its second year of life and then again 3 years ago.

We have been spoiled by the shape holding of 3DL (..3Di), but the savings with dacron or Laminate sails is attractive, so we will be very interested in what you decide and why.

Maybe we should just sail with the 95% for a couple of years.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by weavis

You should get three years never mind seasons, its going to be well spent money.

This was an old thread overtaken by events -- I was writing in 2013. I got two seasons out of them, but at the end of the second the yankee jib blew up in a storm in the Baltic and could not be repaired. I had some of the remnants made into new lee cloths.

These two "seasons" amounted to a long trip down into Biscay, a couple of dozen Channel crossings, and 3000 miles across the North Sea, through the whole Baltic, a summer cruising up there, then all the way back, so your prediction wasn't far off.

Since May, I've had a new set of very lovely carbon fiber laminate sails including two different headsails -- a yankee jib cut like the original, and a blade jib for hard going upwind.

There are other, newer threads about these adventures.

[rgleason]

Radial cut? Sailmaker?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Radial cut? Sailmaker?

Yes, radial cut from Bainbridge carbon/dyneema laminate panels, and beautifully made by a respected local sailmaker here in the Solent. They were expensive, but still significantly less than North quoted me for similar sails.

[rgleason]

And do you see advantages over 3dl and 3di?
How long will they last?
How long will the shape be good?
Will they handle mildew better than 3dl?
How will maintenance/repair be?
Can they be recut?