Milwaukee Right Angle Drill with Harken Chuck

[redhead]

Why, oh why has no one ever told me how easy this was going to make my life? Sails go up, they go down. Since we are still working on our windlass we tried an experiment: we dropped the 110 lb anchor with 3/8" chain right at the dock with about 21 feet of water under us and with a bowline to a chain hook and it raised the anchor like it was a feather. Now we have done this by hand before and it was hernia-town for us. Now we can sail anywhere, anchor, up anchor and sail away.again. We have dubbed our new crew "Mikie".

Seriously, if you have been debating getting one of these, DO IT!!!

[smj]

I started a thread awhile ago about using our Milwaukee on a manual windlass, I think you've answered my question! Works great for sending someone up the mast as well.

[UNCIVILIZED]

An important safety tip which applies as much to these ad hoc winch drivers as it does to power winches. With powered winches, I always try & get folks to tail them manually instead of using the self tailer. Especially newbies. That way you can tell how much load's on the line, & you can't accidentally "overhoist" something or tear it in half. Since the winch drum could turn from now until The Rapture, but if no one's pulling in the line (tailing it, manually), then the line won't move. The drum will just spin.

It's a basic trimming technique that everyone needs to learn & practice/use. Since if they don't, well, imagine what'll happen if they hoist you up the mast using a power winch with a self tailer, & they goof. You either get pulled up into the underside of a spreader at Warp 9. Or have your family jewels (guy or girl parts) sucked through a masthead sheave via a 24v motor, or hydraulics. Not to mention the possiblity of adding a "permanent reef" to any sail you're hoisting or trimming, should anything get snagged while it's being power winched.

[olepedersen]

I agree

[JPA Cate]

Our Milwaukee tool is older than that one, and I love it. I do find it difficult to work with in a seaway because of its weight, but overall, I think it makes a huge difference to us to have it available. I send Jim up the mast using it, and it's a lot easier than hand cranking.

Ann

[UNCIVILIZED]

Ann, I'm sure you guys know this, but a lot of folks new to going up the rig don't. Which is that it's critical (read not optional) for the person going up the mast to have a 2nd, independent line which they themselves use as a safety line. So that if the primary line breaks, a self tailer slips (not that you should trust them for this at all anyway, seriously), or the winch tears itself free of it's mountings, then the person up the mast won't fall & go splat. Thanks to that 2nd line which they're controlling.

There's a lot more to going up the mast safely than just getting into harness, & having someone on deck "press play" on the winch controls. And the deck crew needs to be more savvy than the person going aloft, by far. It's worth studying on, & even getting quality instruction in, just as you would for technical rock climbing.

[a64pilot]

I use mine to raise the dinghy as well.
I joke and tell people all my winches are electric

Uncivilized is right of course. I think it was less than a year ago when a young girl who was experienced crew fell from a mast and I believe she did not survive, so take this seriously, it will kill you

[smj]

Like any power tool, some common sense should be used.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

An important safety tip which applies as much to these ad hoc winch drivers as it does to power winches. With powered winches, I always try & get folks to tail them manually instead of using the self tailer. Especially newbies. That way you can tell how much load's on the line, & you can't accidentally "overhoist" something or tear it in half. Since the winch drum could turn from now until The Rapture, but if no one's pulling in the line (tailing it, manually), then the line won't move. The drum will just spin.

It's a basic trimming technique that everyone needs to learn & practice/use. Since if they don't, well, imagine what'll happen if they hoist you up the mast using a power winch with a self tailer, & they goof. You either get pulled up into the underside of a spreader at Warp 9. Or have your family jewels (guy or girl parts) sucked through a masthead sheave via a 24v motor, or hydraulics. Not to mention the possiblity of adding a "permanent reef" to any sail you're hoisting or trimming, should anything get snagged while it's being power winched.

Unciv, there is a fundamental difference between using the Miwaukee and using a powered winch: with the Millie, you are counteracting the torque generated by the tool with the strength of your arm, whereas in t he directly powered winch there is no such feedback telling you how much load is on the line. Thus if something jams or the sail reaches full hoist, Millie will tear itself out of your grasp but the powered winch will tear out the head of the sail, etc. BIG difference, and one that obviates your concern.

And as to use of a self tailing winch for hoisting me aloft, well, we run the halyard through a clutch. If the self tailer should fail, the clutch takes the load instantly. Without the self tailing, Ann would not be able to reasonably hoist me, even using Millie. We seldom have the luxury of another hand to do the tailing.

While I applaud the idea that such power assists should be used thoughtfully, your restrictions seem overzealous to me.

Jim

[redhead]

We use one of those self climbing gizmos to go up the mast. Is it called ATN? Anyway, it's better than "Thigh Master" for keeping in shape... as we age I'm sure we're going to find a lot of uses for the drill!

[Alberg30Shill]

Are there Chuck's available for other brands/sizes or only Harken?

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Alberg30Shill

Are there Chuck's available for other brands/sizes or only Harken?

The Harken "bit" is your standard winch bit profile. It works on anything a winch handle works on.

I've thought about one of those drills, but until I need it to raise the main it would sit around. I can't use it to raise myself up the mast. :/

They are expensive, that's for sure. But much better than the "Winchrite" or whatever that toy is called. Pretty well bombproof.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Jim, it's one thing for pro's who work together all of the time, & go up masts daily, or many times a day on gear that's continually inspected, to have a bit of shorthand in their communication. Along with a semi-spoken, standardized way of doing things. But even then a pre-briefing's a good idea.

When Brion Toss did a rigging inspection for me, he had 2 or 3 or his crew with him. And though (obviously) they go aloft pretty much every day, he conducted a full pre-briefing with them on how things were to work, prior to getting into harness. Right down to the proper way to tie off a halyard to a winch when he was at the masthead. Not just to lock it into a self tailer with a few extra wraps, along with using the line's clutch. He also had one person to tail the halyard, & another grind it, despite the boat's having massive 3-speed self tailing winches. And that he went up using a safety line that he controlled, in addition to the halyard which was tied to his harness.

I can't say that any of this was new to me at the time. Though I knew much less about rigging then than now. But the safety basics had been schooled into me at 17 by pro's/coaches, along with the reasons for why things were done a certain way.
Note, that I did learn a fair bit about rigging that day. Things which made it worth more than the cost of the inspection. Not that he found much awry which was a shock.

Are there times when some steps get less than 100% attention, certainly. And with me it's only when I'm working with someone that I've done the job with dozens or hundreds of times before, so that both of us know what the proceedures are. And both are marine professionals with more than a little depth of knowledge. Yet why rush things if you don't need to, especially given the stakes. As practice makes permanent, not necessarily perfect. This in addition to neophytes learning from watching experienced (or half experienced) folk, whether such (learning) is intend it or not. They won't know when you can bend the rules & if so, why, or when not to.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Jim, it's one thing for pro's who work together all of the time, & go up masts daily, or many times a day on gear that's continually inspected, to have a bit of shorthand in their communication. Along with a semi-spoken, standardized way of doing things. But even then a pre-briefing's a good idea.

When Brion Toss did a rigging inspection for me, he had 2 or 3 or his crew with him. And though (obviously) they go aloft pretty much every day, he conducted a full pre-briefing with them on how things were to work, prior to getting into harness. Right down to the proper way to tie off a halyard to a winch when he was at the masthead. Not just to lock it into a self tailer with a few extra wraps along with using the line's clutch. He also had one person to tail the halyard, & another grind it, despite the boat's having massive 3-speed self tailing winches. And that he went up using a safety line that he controlled, in addition to the halyard which was tied to his harness.

I can't say that any of this was new to me at the time. Though I knew much less about rigging then than now. But the safety basics had been schooled into me at 17 by pro's/coaches, along with the reasons for why things were done a certain way.
Note, that I did learn a fair bit about rigging that day. Things which made it worth more than the cost of the inspection. Not that he found much awry which was a shock.

Are there times when some steps get less than 100% attention, certainly. And with me it's only when I'm working with someone that I've done the job with dozens or hundreds of times before, so that both of us know what the proceedures are. And both are marine professionals with more than a little depth of knowledge. Yet why rush things if you don't need to, especially given the stakes. As practice makes permanent, not necessarily perfect. This in addition to neophytes learning from watching experienced (or half experienced) folk, whether such (learning) is intend it or not. They won't know when you can bend the rules & if so, why, or when not to.

Unciv, I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at here. My first comments were relative to use of a Milwukee type powered winch handle vs a directly powered winch in various applications.

My second point was relative to the use of self tailing winches for going aloft.

How Brion Toss and his paid crew of three go about their work is not terribly relevant to how a mom and pop cruising couple, out at anchor in the woop-woop accomplish similar tasks.

You have vast experience in maritime tasks, but it seems that your experience base is in well funded racing programs with stacks of trained professionals at hand. That is an enviable position, but one far removed from the realities of most cruising folks. We muddle on, using the tools and skills at hand. If this means going aloft using a self tailing winch, we take what precautions are available and rely upon good sense and care to make that equipment useful for the task.

I'm not trying to be cavalier about safety here, just trying to be realistic... or perhaps I've completely misunderstood your posts and am barking up the wrong tree (mast?).

Jim

[Sailing Drummer]

Uncivilized - a little bit of a thread drift here -
I just went up the mast 4 times this last week with just my wife at the winch. We stopped about every 5 feet each way so she could tighten/loosen the safety halyard. How does the one going up control the safety halyard instead of someone below. Would you use a block/cam cleat?