Mack or Stack Pack ?

[imagine2frolic]

BEST WISHES on the windfall...............i2f

[Therapy]

So, it is done.

I ordered a Mack Pack.

Thanks all.

[schoonerdog]

You ordered the mack pack -- what do you think now that you are using it. Our Doyle stack pack officially fell to pieces this spring from weather and child climbing. We are on the hunt for something to replace it.
We're thinking of going with the lazy cradle that Bacon's makes here in annapolis... reasonable price and we saw one of their on a catamaran here in the anchorage that looked great and had some nice detailing like mesh drains along the bottom!
(schoonerdog's wife Cindy)

[Southern Star]

Schoonerdog, I'm having my own made this fall by a local canvass shop in order to include what I see as the best features of various designs:

1. Instead of attaching the cover to the main (Stack pack), or using a separate track for it (UK Halsey), I am using sail slides in the boom aft of the clew (this will work with an open footed main).

2. Unlike the Mac, I am using fiberglass battens at the top of the cover and having the lazy jacks led through eyes in the canvass below the battens. This not only improves neatness, but allows the cover to stay up without the attachment to the topping lift (or stainless boom bracket) used by Mac.

3. Like the Mac, I am having a zipper installed at the top with a continuous loop of line run through a pulley at the ends of the cover - this will enable opening and closing from either end of the boom (and will save trying to reach over a bimini to pull a zipper shut.)

4. The ends of the cover will have common sense fasteners and sleeves for around the mast and the end of the boom.

This system will enable you to use (most) existing lazy jack systems and will not interfere with reefing lines for the clew as the boom will remain uncovered.

Brad

[Beach Cruiser]

We replaced our stack pack with the Doyle cradle cover 2 years ago and love it. It is much easier now that it is not attached to our sails. We were told by the sail loft in Ft. Lauderdale that they only use the cradle covers now. Our sail is now loose footed and it has not affected our sailing, but we are a loaded for cruising.

Barry

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

You ordered the mack pack -- what do you think now that you are using it. Our Doyle stack pack officially fell to pieces this spring from weather and child climbing. We are on the hunt for something to replace it.
We're thinking of going with the lazy cradle that Bacon's makes here in annapolis... reasonable price and we saw one of their on a catamaran here in the anchorage that looked great and had some nice detailing like mesh drains along the bottom!
(schoonerdog's wife Cindy)

I love it.
I have not used the other ones but I knew I did not want to have it sewn to the main. I Don't know how the Doyle compares really.
The lazy jack lines are bigger/stronger and double as a topping lift. I like that because the topping lifts always seem so small and weak to me.
Also I don't have to be directly into the wind when raising the main. I can be off a lot. One only has to loosen the leeward side and bring the lines to the mast. Then there is nothing to encounter the sail as it is raised. Uber-cool.

[islandplanet]

Hyde Sails, which is now expanding into North America, has a wonderful "pack" system of their own.

[Rick Sargent]

*I just readsome entries above that answer many of my problems (weird they wearnt there when i started. must'v missed a page)

Hi, Here I am going through the same choice Mack or Stack pack for my new main rig but old sail on my 53 Cruising Hudson.
Mack Pack made by Mack sails in Stuart Florida seem a good sturdy system which incorporates Harken lazyjacks and a custom cover to last the ages with all kinds of fancy stitching and a heavy duty sumbrella. For you West Coast Guys Mack Sails is a long respected sailmaker/ rigger here in the East. I'm guessing that this is there copy of the sysem with a fortunate play on words.
For my Hudson with a 21 foot boom around $850 + $10 a foot over 18 ft and 35% more to have it installed. About $1300. You can use your own sail as the pack is attached to the boom though a fully battened main is recommended.
Doyle Stack packs I know even less about as well as Dutchman systems which also appear to be a Doyle invention. I am learning here but hope you old salts can break the tie as I go over what I learned from the forums. I know you will feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

1.) The Duchman is attach to the sail by a number small luff lead lines which are lead through eyelets.
Pros: A better faster flaking system
No lazyjack type jamming on raising the sail off wind
No cover flap or fold over problems
Cons: No integrated sail cover requiring more time secure and stow
Requires a fully battened main with eyelets
Lines need to be adjusted often

2.) Mack Pack which like stack pack is a top zippered cover attached to the boom and incorporating Harken lazyjacks
Pros:A fast efficient sysytem
High quality long lasting cover with quality lazy jacks
Can be use with existing main though full batten recommend
Cons: No top support of the cover which allows the pack to fold under the sail requiring additional clearing before zip up
has lazy jack jamming with battens on raising
Posible cover wind flaping
Expensive?

3.) Doyle Stack Pack
Pros: A fast efficient sysytem with no cover flapover problems because of it's top lazy Jack attachment
Cons: life span approx 5 years max before desinigration
- Lightly built
Has lazy jack jamming
Pack must be sewn on fully battened sail

This is about all I have now. If you could confirm or deny the above such as Stack pack having to definately be sewn on the sail and Macks flap over problem, Or perhapsother cradle type options not mentioned that wouldn't be a time consuming pain in the ass to find and get moving on and made. I am out of the yard here at Westland in Titusville (Love it here. Great "Old Time Yard") when I finish relaying my hull with epoxy and barrierer coat after blister gelcoat scrape. About 3 weeks / month. I would be nice to have a easy main for self handling.

[sabray]

I have a Mack pack. Lazy jacks are set so I pull the forward when sailing or raising the main. The zipper us a continously connected line. I have to shake snd pull as it zips up or down.it is not sewn to the sail. It is stapled onset the foot of the sail.it is above system I have full batten main. I have had to restitch the zipper. It would work better if the pack had a batten and was lifted by the lazy jacks, my replacement will have that.light batten inside the zipper line. Connection around the foot of sail using webbing , lazy jacks attached to batten seem at top of pack integrated to webbing instead of tie offs on boom.

[Rick Sargent]

Thanks Sabray, I am leaning toward the Mack. I don't know your situation on yours is but I just read on their sight that everything is totally warrantied for 18 months .. and -We will replace the zipper and refurbish the cover for $75, incl. UPS back, to anywhere in USA. This offer good for 6 yrs.
The battens at the top and some connections for the lazy jacks there to hold it up seem he way to go. though I do like them to be attached to the boom also for the added strength and less stress o the pack. I'll see if they would be willing to do that since it is a common complaint that it flaps over as well as zipping problems.
how do you feel about the general stitching and quality/ thickness of the fabric?

[islandplanet]

Pretty much every sailmaker, us included has their own version of the (fill in the blank) pack or bag. In general I don't like anything that needs to be attached to the sail but I think most everyone has gotten away from that. I'd stick to high quality materials like Sunbrella. You don't want to try saving money by going with a cheap material as the lifespan will be greatly decreased.

We call our system the "Lazy Bag." All have their pluses and minuses. You'll likely find ones with a brand name label may cost more than those from an independent loft. Investigate material, features, and hardware closely.

[redcobra]

[QUOTE=Rick Sargent;746700
3.) Doyle Stack Pack
Pros: A fast efficient sysytem with no cover flapover problems because of it's top lazy Jack attachment
Cons: life span approx 5 years max before desinigration
- Lightly built
Has lazy jack jamming
Pack must be sewn on fully battened sail

This is about all I have now. If you could confirm or deny the above such as Stack pack having to definately be sewn on the sail and Macks flap over problem, Or perhapsother cradle type options not mentioned that wouldn't be a time consuming pain in the ass to find and get moving on and made. I am out of the yard here at Westland in Titusville (Love it here. Great "Old Time Yard") when I finish relaying my hull with epoxy and barrierer coat after blister gelcoat scrape. About 3 weeks / month. I would be nice to have a easy main for self handling.[/QUOTE]

The stack pack is not sewn to the sail. I just had my cover removed and sent to Doyle to replace the zipper sewing which let go after 5 years. They are now using new thread which should last a lot longer they tell me.

The sail cover is put on the boom using track slides. The main itself is loose footed, attached only at the tack and the outhaul. We dropped the jacks and disconnected them at the top ring, unreaved the reefing lines, and the cover slid right out from under the mainsail. I can continue to sail with the main while the cover is being repaired. I just have to furl the sail on the boom with sail ties for now.

I have had the Stack Pack for 5 years and the only trouble I have had is the zipper stiching. I love it and wish I had had it for the previous 35 years on all my boats.

[s/v Jedi]

If you have a loose-footed sail, the cover from Doyle uses slides in the track of the boom and is (was? mine is from 2003) called cradle-cover. The stack-pack is sewn to the foot of the sail.

ciao!
Nick.

[redcobra]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

If you have a loose-footed sail, the cover from Doyle uses slides in the track of the boom and is (was? mine is from 2003) called cradle-cover. The stack-pack is sewn to the foot of the sail.

ciao!
Nick.

Nick, is your cover actually sewn on the full length of the sail foot?

My main and stack pack were built by Doyle in 2005. The sail is loose footed and not sewn to the cover. That's the way they make it unless you are using an existing sail. Once the cover is installed, the sail is effectively not loose footed although you can belly it by slacking the outhaul. Seems to have the benefit of both fixed and loose footed sails.
My sail is full length battened and uses a Tides track and batt cars.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by redcobra

Nick, is your cover actually sewn on the full length of the sail foot?

My main and stack pack were built by Doyle in 2005. The sail is loose footed and not sewn to the cover. That's the way they make it unless you are using an existing sail. Once the cover is installed, the sail is effectively not loose footed although you can belly it by slacking the outhaul. Seems to have the benefit of both fixed and loose footed sails.
My sail is full length battened and uses a Tides track and batt cars.

I have the Doyle cradle cover... it is not attacked to the sail anywhere, just with slides to the boom and to the lazy jacks.

ciao!
Nick.