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Old 13-10-2017, 20:52   #1
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Looking for a winch drum

Hi Forum,

We've got a Harken self tailer that's finally worn smooth enough that we're having some slipping issues. I have to tail the self tailer...

I don't need to replace the winch-it still works fine.

Does anybody know where a good place to look for a drum might be? Anyone heard of drums being refinished?

Thanks, TJ
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Old 13-10-2017, 21:30   #2
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

Drum material?

Jim
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Old 13-10-2017, 21:35   #3
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

Hi Jim, it's aluminum.

I was looking through some older threads after I posted this, and saw that you were using sandpaper to achieve this. Is this also on aluminum drums?
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Old 13-10-2017, 21:53   #4
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

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Originally Posted by TJ D View Post
Hi Jim, it's aluminum.

I was looking through some older threads after I posted this, and saw that you were using sandpaper to achieve this. Is this also on aluminum drums?
Nope, chromed bronze. That's why I was asking, 'cause that method does work, albeit not perfectly. In your case, I doubt if it would help, for I suspect that the coarse sanding would disrupt any remaining anodizing.


I'm pretty sure that you could have your drums knurled and then re-anodized, but don't know if it would be cost effective. Have you asked Harken? Unciv has said that they are very good about customer support.

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Old 13-10-2017, 22:09   #5
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

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Nope, chromed bronze. That's why I was asking, 'cause that method does work, albeit not perfectly. In your case, I doubt if it would help, for I suspect that the coarse sanding would disrupt any remaining anodizing.


I'm pretty sure that you could have your drums knurled and then re-anodized, but don't know if it would be cost effective. Have you asked Harken? Unciv has said that they are very good about customer support.

Jim
Hi Jim, I just started thinking about this today. It's been a slow process, this smoothing of the winch. The boat's not going anywhere but for a daysail or two until April, so it's a good time to dig into this.

I sort of figured that there might be some resource to just buy a factory remnant or something along those lines, rather than machining, but all options are currently on the table!

I'll probably give Harken a shout on Monday and see what they recommend.

Thanks, TJ
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Old 14-10-2017, 00:17   #6
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

TJ there's a guy over on Sailing Anarchy Forums, Bam Miller I think, who resurfaces winch drums. Pretty much the whole crowd over there uses his services.


Edit: Yep, here you go Faded anodized winch solution? - Fix It Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
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Old 14-10-2017, 00:22   #7
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

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TJ there's a guy over on Sailing Anarchy Forums, Bam Miller I think, who resurfaces winch drums. Pretty much the whole crowd over there uses his services.
Great, thanks. I'll see if I can track him down. I'll be back and forth from the US to the boat a couple of times over the winter, I can fetch it and chuck it in my bag.

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Old 14-10-2017, 00:34   #8
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

There are numerous other threads on resurfacing winch drums where he's mentioned, & or makes an appearance in addition to the above one. But hopefully that'll do the trick. Though if you do go over to SA Forums, you might start a thread to look for someone near you.

One other thing is that in some aluminum parts, the heat involved with some coatings, such as some varieties of flame spraying, can destroy the factory heat treatment of the part.

For example some friends wanted to get their aluminum LPG tanks done this way as a corrosion preventative, but the shop guys said that they couldn't due to the heat's effect on the alloy & factory heat treatment. In that it might render them unsafe, that, or cause the shop to be liable if the tanks failed.

There are some DIY coatings that I'd personally be curious to experiment with. As any more some of them almost become one with the part they're on. But the price of the experimenting would likely run more than having the job professionally done.

Also, not that it'd be inexpensive, but I'd imagine that Harken would sell you a new drum, if it comes to that.


Edit: Stumble might know some other sources for things like this as well, though he's not been seen around here much of late. Hopefully he's out sailing.
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Old 14-10-2017, 04:19   #9
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

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Does anybody know where a good place to look for a drum might be? Anyone heard of drums being refinished?
What you are looking for on a Harken winch drum is Type III Hardcoat anodizing, a type of anodizing with a lot of different applications.

This finish is used not only by Harken for their drums but to finish aluminum M-16 magazines and as a coating for bakeware like for frozen pizza pans. I know a guy who did anodizing for all of the above including Harken.

There is no heat involved with hardcoat anodizing. Not sure what Unciv is talking about. To the contrary Type III hardcoat is done at 32F.

These guys in Seattle can probably hook you up or will know someone who can. I would expect to pay less than $100 to strip and re-anodize.

The Asko Group (Seattle,WA)
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Old 14-10-2017, 04:55   #10
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

Yeah, I had to check to make sure but as I recalled Kynar (PVDF), Teflon (PTFE), and most powder coatings used on aluminum all cure at temperatures below 400F and will not affect heat treatments which typically occur at temperatures above 900F.

Those are pretty much all of your options for coating aluminum beside conventional room temperature paint systems so not really sure what that bit about worrying about heat was about.
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Old 14-10-2017, 05:54   #11
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

If one fully reads what the OP is looking for, he wants more than just a new coating type finish on the winch drum. Specifically, he's desiring to have the drum's non-slip properties renewed along with a new cosmetic & anti-corrossion finish put onto the winch drum.

Regarding my statements; past, present, or future. If there are questions, or confusion about anything which I post, the solution is quite simple. Ask me to further clarify what I've said. Usually I'm more than happy to do so.

As to my earlier above post, if one reads it, it's quite clear that I only mention Flame Spraying. Particularly in regards to the heat associated with the process possibly causing issues with the parent metal being coated. Which, given the temperatures involved in some varieties of Flame Spraying, is a very relevent concern. No where did I mention Anodizing, nor Powder Coating. So tying my comments about heat issues to them is a misread.

Also, in addition to the types of coatings for aluminum already mentioned, there are numerous spray & bake coatings available, that are incredibly durable, protective, & corrosion resistant. Ones which can be applied by the DIY crowd, or professionals.
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Old 14-10-2017, 06:20   #12
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

My bad.

I am familiar with zinc, aluminum, ceramic, and enamel anti-corrosion coatings thermally applied to STEEL substrates. My confusion comes from the fact I have never heard of an anti-corrosion thermally applied coating for an ALUMINUM substrate. The only thermally applied coatings I have heard of for aluminum substrates are for the inside of engine bores on aluminum engine blocks, which are to increase wear resistance not corrosion.

That said, I am certainly interested to learn more and would appreciate any reference to thermally applied anti-corrosion coatings for aluminum substrates. Particularly for DIY. Sounds like fun.

Thanks!
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Old 14-10-2017, 11:05   #13
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

I worked for a manufacturer of fire fighting hose fittings. They were machined from aluminum and anodized with several different coatings. One was very course, dark grey, would be an ideal non-slip finish, and as hard as steel.
Search your local area for a provider and get your drums coated.

“Hardcoat Anodize” is very specific type of anodize that gives aluminum parts greater abrasion and corrosion resistance than that provided by the more conventional plain anodize processes. It is sometimes referred to as “Alumilite Hard Coat,” “Martin Hard Coating,” “Hard Anodizing” or “Hard Coating”. The coating is a hard aluminum oxide that is formed by the electrochemical reaction of aluminum with oxygen. It is chemically bonded to the aluminum. Hard Anodic Coatings are defined by Military Specification MIL-A- 8625, Type III, Class 1. In order to meet this specification, the coating thickness must be held to .002″ +/- 20%, pass the abrasion resistance requirement found in the specification, and be routinely tested to these parameters to insure quality. Plain, or conventional anodize has no such requirement for thickness or wear resistance.
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Old 14-10-2017, 11:45   #14
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

I have mirror polished chrome drums, the spring loaded self tailing jaws tail the line. How do the springs and gripping "teeth" (texture) inside the jaws look ?
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Old 14-10-2017, 12:07   #15
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Re: Looking for a winch drum

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I have mirror polished chrome drums, the spring loaded self tailing jaws tail the line. How do the springs and gripping "teeth" (texture) inside the jaws look ?
Thanks for the tips, guys. I had not considered the jaws. The springs are fine, but maybe this is part of it. But, the drums have worn pretty smooth. These Harken drums are pretty small, not a huge amount of contact surface, so I sort of suspect the drum, but we'll have a look at that too.

To clarify, I really just want the friction surface to be re-roughened one way or another. I'm not looking for a full refinish-the drum looks fine cosmetically.

TJ
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