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Old 14-06-2016, 10:28   #16
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

OP: I think you've just been caught in a push-me-pull-you that is just an intrinsic part of today's yotting. On the one hand you are a beginning sailor, you say. In consequence you might still be a bit "on edge", a bit anxious, when you are doing what sailors have to do on deck. That's apt to make you think that there is a "problem" where there really isn't. On the other hand, your boat is a fin keel/spade rudder design, which hardly makes for a stable platform for a noob to learn on :-)

Well, that's life! It's really tough, these days, to find a boat above 40 feet that's well suited for a noob to learn on. Builders and naval architects live in a fantasy world thinking that all boats have to be racers, so that is for the most part what is available in the used boat market.

I think you can solve your difficulties just by thinking through what you are doing, and developing practices that sequence the things you have to do in such a way that all but hauling up the main is done PRIOR to your leaving the helm. Getting to the mast, hauling up a 350 foot main, belaying the halyard and getting back to the wheel should take no more than two minutes provided your gear is set up right, and all has been made ready before you go forward.

For example, lazyjacks are for catching the canvas as it comes down. They are NOT a peace of gear you want to have in your way as you hoist. So BEFORE you leave the dock, you bring the lazyjacks in to the gooseneck and secure them there with a gasket. Then THAT job is outta the way. If you feel the need to lash the canvas to the boom so it's secure as you motor our of the marina, then remove your sailcover and any gaskets while you are still alongside and lash your canvas to the boom with a piece of light line laid on with a chainstich, so when you are in all respects ready to hoist, you can, standing at the mast, slip the chainstitch which will drop onto deck leaving the canvas free to be hoisted. If you've started your mainsheet by hand (which you can do while at the helm) before you go forward so the boom is free to swing, then, provided your slides/slugs run free on the track/in the cove, your sail will be up in less than a minute. For that short time, even though she is a fin-keeler with a spade rudder, she is likely to hold her course if your rudder is locked midships and your throttle is only just above idle in forward gear.

Ships are referred to as "she" cos, like women, they are all different, and cos to get along with any one of them you have to learn that particular one's foibles and be willing to accommodate to the things you can't change :-)

So just go out and practice - always thinking about what YOU can do to meet the boat's particular intrinsic requirements.

TrentePieds
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Old 14-06-2016, 10:36   #17
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

I don't understand hoisting sail at the dock. If there's enough wind to sail, unless you happen to be dead into the wind at your slip, you're going to have the devil of a time getting the sail up, the devil of a time maneuvering out of the marina with the mainsail up pushing you around, and limiting your visibility.

I single hand a 17 ton 44 foot steel boat a lot and have no problem. Get out into open water, get head to the wind, idle ahead with the autopilot on, and go up and raise the main. Reverse the process to bring it down.

I too have an aging sail cover. I'm considering replacing it with a "Stack Pack" or one of it's variations and would appreciate advice and comments. Are they worth it? Or should I just get a new sail cover?

Thanks
-Bill, S/V Scorpius, Lund, BC
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Old 14-06-2016, 10:42   #18
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

Thanks for the tidbits here. I am currently getting a quote from a local UK Sails guy, and if it is too expensive then I'll just make a pass on it until later. I'll just wait until my current lazy jacks break down. I'll just get a traditional mainsail cover.

Yeah, I've been using the electric winch, but I've been pretty good on making sure that it goes up smoothly. I usually use the winch to get it most of the way up and then I do it by hand for the last quarter for that reason of not breaking my mainsheet.

Is there anything that can make raising my mainsail smoother? I know there is the strong track system, but I think I might save that for next year (I might need to get a new mainsail.)
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Old 14-06-2016, 10:45   #19
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius99eh View Post
I don't understand hoisting sail at the dock. If there's enough wind to sail, unless you happen to be dead into the wind at your slip, you're going to have the devil of a time getting the sail up, the devil of a time maneuvering out of the marina with the mainsail up pushing you around, and limiting your visibility.

I single hand a 17 ton 44 foot steel boat a lot and have no problem. Get out into open water, get head to the wind, idle ahead with the autopilot on, and go up and raise the main. Reverse the process to bring it down.

I too have an aging sail cover. I'm considering replacing it with a "Stack Pack" or one of it's variations and would appreciate advice and comments. Are they worth it? Or should I just get a new sail cover?

Thanks
-Bill, S/V Scorpius, Lund, BC
Just to clarify, when I have a crew I usually try to get the mainsail up right before I leave the marina not in my slip. The marina waters is just plain easier to do it.
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Old 14-06-2016, 12:01   #20
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

Hi,
I have a stack pack with lazy jacks. The best way of mounting the jacks is to get a small pulley block up as high as you can so that it will help support the full length of the stack pack. If you have two sets of spreaders, the blocks should be attached to the underside of the top spreader, about 6" to 1' away from the mast. A rigger should be able to advise. Remember to use monel rivets.
However, I have noticed a growing popularity with boom wings; I refer to them as a poor man's canoe boom. Have a look at them in any case and see what you think. Remember that the stack pack is useful when raising or lowering the sail. In between it is redundant but by keeping it raised you impede the sail camber and you increase the chance of chafe on the sail; in addition the stack pack will flog around in the wind reducing its life if you do not lower it. But that means having to go forward to sort things out which is not what you want. It is one of those compromise situations again. The boom wings help in this respect, but they are expensive. No easy answer and your choice. Good luck
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Old 14-06-2016, 12:12   #21
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

I have removable jacks too - So sail ties are needed - the jacks are stowed at the mast after the drop and sail ties are on. This makes the launch NEVER catch on a jack. And I rarely have problem on the drop.

#1 - Get the wife to steer while you raise the main.

#2 - Use the autopilot. I do it all the time in the marina. If I'm solo, you'll see me turn to wind, idle the motor (or neutral depending on my speed and wind speed), and pop otto on. Then I walk up to the mast and launch my main. Walk back and off I go. Yes, I watch traffic while doing it. And where I sail paddle boarders are everywhere. Haven't hit anything yet....
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Old 14-06-2016, 13:20   #22
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

Check out in-boom roller furling for the main. Leisure Furl just came out with a, electric powered furler with a manual override. It works on the Beneteau for 1500 miles, and will work for your purposes.
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Old 14-06-2016, 13:55   #23
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

I'm confused by your comment on using Mack Packs, or their Doyle Stack Pack equivalent, and removing lazy jacks. Those systems are designed to use lazy jacks to get the sail to drop/flake into that cool cover. I really appreciated Uncivilized's suggestion to just make them yourself because they are really simple. One point that he covers, but is not used on most boats, is to mount the top fitting for the lines on the spreaders (harder for multiple spreader boats), not the mast. This gives more room for sailing, and provides a nice funnel-shaped basket so you do not have to be directly head-to-wind to drop your sail.

The only reason Harken sells them with two or three little blocks per side is they're trying to sell little blocks, not because they are needed. It's not that lazy jack lines move all that much - only a few inches away from the sail.
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Old 14-06-2016, 14:15   #24
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

Get a Dutchman flanking system and you'll not have the lazy-jack issue at all. Once adjusted, the sail flakes neatly every time.

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Old 14-06-2016, 14:22   #25
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

Or just get an in boom reefing system. Roll up the sail electrically. Seen it on a Hinckley 42. Main and mizzen just rolled up into their respective booms. No muss, no fuss; just push a button, hold, and let go when the desired amount is rolled up. Nice thing is the sails are out of the way for storms, no one need be on deck, and no need for sail covers.
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Old 14-06-2016, 14:34   #26
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

modify your sail to a Dutchman system, it is the most single hand user friendly system yet. no damn lazy jacks to get in the way and one person can raise and lower the main with no difficulty and no loose sail flopping around.
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Old 14-06-2016, 14:48   #27
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

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Originally Posted by Captndave1 View Post
modify your sail to a Dutchman system, it is the most single hand user friendly system yet. no damn lazy jacks to get in the way and one person can raise and lower the main with no difficulty and no loose sail flopping around.
For a bit more money, why not just do an in boom roller reefing system? Add on the electric package and you eliminate all clutter, any need to go on deck, and an continuous reefing system where you select how much you want to reef.
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Old 14-06-2016, 15:37   #28
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

Chainstich lashing is the name of the quick release lashing I sometimes use.



Dont use the timber hitch at the start as shown here, just make the line fast to the boom somewhere, eg the kicker/vang. Finish it where you can reach it from the cockpit.
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Old 14-06-2016, 15:58   #29
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

What doyou guys think of the strong track system? Is there a way to make raising the sail smoother?
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Old 14-06-2016, 16:00   #30
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Re: Keep my Lazy jacks?

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Chainstich lashing is the name of the quick release lashing I sometimes use.



Dont use the timber hitch at the start as shown here, just make the line fast to the boom somewhere, eg the kicker/vang. Finish it where you can reach it from the cockpit.
Thanks for the picture. I'll try it out. Something like this will be easy for me to explain to someone really quickly.
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