Eliminating lifelines?

[sully75]

Just wondering. Anyone sailing without lifelines? I'm about to replace some stanchions and my lifelines and pondering their actual use. I'm installing a really strong jackline and harness system which seems more likely to actually prevent going over the side (heavy dyneema jacklines and short tethers).


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[HappyMdRSailor]

Sully,

I think it all depends on the boat, the line handling setup, the crew, and the conditions you sail in...

An under 30' with more than one, furling, daysailed or overnighted on lakes in tame weather??? Why not?

Solo, where heading East/West/South means you need a passport??? I wouldn't...

[sully75]

Sorry. For my purposes it's a Pearson Triton 28', fueling jib, hoping to sail to Newfoundland this summer, sailing solo most of the time.

[Kenomac]

Getting rid of lifelines sounds dumbass if you ask me. They are primarily used as something to grab onto in order to aid with keeping your balance while walking on deck.

[ontherocks83]

Life lines are really useless, until they are not useless, then they are 100% essential. Just like seat belts.

I can't imagine you are going to use a harness 24/7 but you can use life lines 24/7

[sartorst]

HINT (lifeline) I would never crew for you! I have only grabbed mine a few times BUT?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by sully75

Sorry. For my purposes it's a Pearson Triton 28', fueling jib, hoping to sail to Newfoundland this summer, sailing solo most of the time.

I replaced my old cable lifelines (on a Bristol 27) with Polyester/Dyneema last year. So far so good.

My first 12 boats didn't have lifelines.

I'm thinking if you have experience on boats without lifelines it helps since you have never depended on them to keep you on the boat.

I sail back and forth across the lower Chesapeake where the bay meets the Atlantic Ocean. You are no more than 10 miles from land but if you do go overboard you still have a problem with the strong current especially if it's outgoing (and the water temp is low)

I sail solo also.....


This guy sailed 3/4 the way around the globe with what looks like are very thin single lifelines........

[zeehag]

lifelines only show ye where the edge of boat is when you have other things on yer mined. i learned without lifelines... but i appreciate those i have on my boat as they do remind me when my feet come close to edges of boat.
they were not meant to save lives, merely point your body more inboard.

[cruisersfarm]

Really depends on the boat.

95% of all recreational boats? Yes.

Currently, my boat doesn't yet have them (on the to do list), but I'm finding that so far, they have been quite unnecessary. I have an indoor helm and am still awaiting a mast. Further, I have a forward cockpit like a Gunboat, so there is really no time you are out on deck except in anchoring situations.

I've beedn debating installing them (most likely will).

I also use an old rule I've loved to keep in mind my whole life:

"One hand for you, one hand for the boat."

[UNCIVILIZED]

It's going to sound odd, but when I first started sailing without them, I barely noticed. And the thing is, is that I REALLY thought that I would. Albeit, keep in mind that I was 23, & on the water 6+ days/wk. So, yeah, a professional (12m's then). And I was used to Never hanging onto the boat, regardless of her size, the weather, or what I was doing.

Which, if you're really considering doing going this route. Try racing for a bit, in a position where you're on the foredeck a Lot. And need both of your hands all of the time for sail handling & such.
However, the thing is, both you AND ALL of your crew need to be sailing at that level. So if you're not out on the water regularly. And most cruising boats Definitely aren't, then you'd best pass on the idea.

Especially as, they're real handy for catching errant sails. Or to use their stanchion bases as temporary lashing points for gear.
Although foredeck handrails, tall enough to hook your feet underneath of, are a BIG bonus on any boat. Lifelines or no.

Plus which, unlike on a racing boat, you don't have a full crew onboard for various evolutions. So that if anything goes awry, there aren't a heap of extra, expert guys to notice it before it happens, & or control it before it gets out of hand.
As, for example, even on just a 35'er, it's Tough for one strong guy, who's well braced & anchored to the deck, to pull a sail back aboard, once Neptune has a hold of half of it.

So, that said, what would you hope to gain by not having them?
There are easier ways to reduce your boat’s windage. And I’m guessing that you don’t use deck sealing (sweeper) jibs. So what’s the perk?
I mean, if your stanchion bases leak, there are even ways to fix that, more or less, permanently. So…

[hellosailor]

Real men don't need no stinkin lifelines.


Which is why every racing organization now requires them, after getting tired of hearing about crew going overboard and drowning during races. Without those useless lifelines on their boats.


But, hey, they could all be wrong. Or maybe the lifeline manufacturers have paid them all off. And those dead real men were right, they didn't and now certainly don't need lifelines.

[barnakiel]

I have seen some classic yachts without stanchions and lines.

I would not go this way in a small boat with unprofessional crew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBwKP8VjngA

b.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Getting rid of lifelines sounds dumbass...

Bingo!

Sounds like the OP needs some more sailing experience.

[Sandibar]

Hmm.. My lifelines saved my butt last year. Was trying to fish the genoa sheet with a pole and lost my balance when the boat rocked. Ended up hanging on the lifelines by my hip. Wife was steering DDW in foggy weather. Falling in the water would really have sucked. If always using a harness on the foredeck, I see no problem going without, otherwise I would keep'em. I'm replacing my lifelines before splashing this spring.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Real men don't need no stinkin lifelines.


Which is why every racing organization now requires them, after getting tired of hearing about crew going overboard and drowning during races. Without those useless lifelines on their boats.


But, hey, they could all be wrong. Or maybe the lifeline manufacturers have paid them all off. And those dead real men were right, they didn't and now certainly don't need lifelines.

I'd be curious to see where you're getting your figures from, & what boats, & under what circumstances you're talking about. As we NEVER lost anyone over the side on Any boat which I've sailed on that didn't have lifelines. Even in 30+ knots, when flying kites & staysails, along with Giant mains.

As to said racing bodies which have mandated lifelines. I'm not at all saying that lifelines are a bad idea, but...
Those EXACT same racing bodies have mandated; self inflating lifejackets, type X lifeline tethers, & safety-(stupidity)-at-sea seminars for all racing crew (which are 99% watered down from the real seminars). Or if not now, they did require them for ALL racing crew for quite a while.
I say as this, having participated in, helped to create, & demo many of the real Safety-at-Sea Seminars.

These same lifejackets are the ones now Proven to have caused many a drowning, needlessly. Ditto on the tethers.
Plus said governing bodies are the ones who mandated the (snap link) gate types for lifeline tethers. Snap shackles which I can easily bend open, & permanently deform using a thumb & two fingers on one hand.
--> They're supposed to keep us "safe", those folks? No thanks!

Yeah, & BTW, there are plenty of tests which show as much regarding the lifejackets & tethers. And they have made the rounds though the community, via sailing periodicals, & video channels. One's below.

These types of things. Along with 101 other nannying regulations, in the name of "safety", Really, Really piss me off. As opposed to leaving such things to say, using common sense & experience. Or to Skippers.
As the Legal FACT is, that the Captain is ultimately responsible for what happens on his boat at sea. Period.

You can't legislate "safety" (no such thing exists). And the more that you try to, the more of a False sense of security you give people. Which in turn, makes things far, far more dangerous. As people are then operating under the illusion that they're safe; due to their gear, or say, "Plan B", below.

This kind of danger via legislation isn't just for the sailors, but for the rescue crews that then get called out to help them, often in truly abysmal conditions. Because the crew on the boat (generally, not the Skipper) pressed the "Help" button on their EPIRB because they were scared. Literally. That's it.
Just scared: Not in mortal peril, or close there to.
And it's happened countless times, including haven been done by members here, on this very forum. Ones with LOTS of offshore experience.

Below's one of the life jacket/tether videos, with a chilling analysis. As well as a video to enjoy, but in it, is the tale of an EPIRB exactly as I speak it. And such is quite common. Sadly.
http://www.pbo.co.uk/seamanship/is-i...a-tether-25125
Also, here's another chiller http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog...l-10084-1.html & more aren't hard to find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaRmkSHtTvw