Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED
why wouldn't you attach the runners in the standard position, opposing the pull of the new stay? Would they pose the possible danger
of inverting the spar there?
I made this comment for several reasons:
-- B&R rigs are setup with a built in dynamic tension system which I've never studied. So I don't know what, if any, Achilles's Heels that they have.
-- Hunter's rigs aren't true B&R rigs as I understand the setup on such boats, which complicates the above.
-- You can invert almost any mast, given enough tension pulling the tube aft in the wrong spot. Especially if it's unopposed, or poorly opposed by tension on it's forward side.
For example, when trimming the Main via tuning the (slender) spar on a racer
, you frequently have someone checking spar bend when adjusting the Runners & Check's, for this reason.
So if someone cranks on the runners too much when there's naught to oppose it's pull. And or the rig, in this case a factory re-designed version of the B&R, isn't designed for a lot of load in this area... Then you could invert it, & Bad Juju would likely follow. Up to & including a Gravity Storm.
-- When you have a Trysail up, or a Main reefed down to it's 3rd or 4th reef, the head
of the sail can put a Lot of aftward tension onto the spar. And on some of the more svelte sticks out there. The Trysails are sized so that their head
is in about the same place on a spar as the Babystay's attachment point. Or in some cases, the Staysail Stay's.
In order to prevent overloading that part of the mast tube in the aft direction.
Particularly if/when, the Trysail/deeply reefed Main, is the only sail flying. And the winds are in the high double digit range. So that the loads on the spar can get a bit extreme. Which is especially relevant on high strung mast designs.
Something that Hunter's B&R, may or may not be. But given that it; has no backstay (on some), is purpose designed to be bendy in the fore & aft plane, & that it has 2x as many stays as conventional rigs; then the math ain't too complicated. For me anyway, concerning them being "high strung" or not.
However, I may be a bit misinformed about them too. Hence my curiosity about adding a 2nd headstay to them.
Also, I'm with Snowpetrel
, on the Solent Stay thing. And the location of the head of such a stay. As you can even set such stays up so that the stay's lower end, connects to a tang, either; in the Solent position, or in the regular Staysail Position.
A staysail itself won't really know the difference of where the stay's head's attached to the spar. And having such flexibility as to where you can hang sails
of of it is a big perk in my book. Since you can reconfigure your rig for the conditions in only a moment or three.
With regards to resolving the stresses involved with where to attach staysail stay's tang, & runner tang's. There seems to be some missing information on how stays are commonly attached. Ditto on spreaders.
As when designing a spar, on a lot of boats, it's the norm to add a doubler plate to the mast, overtop of the compression
tube, which houses the bolt which holds on the shroud
And said doubler plate, often encompases the area under the base(s) of the spreaders as well. So as to strengthen the mast walls in those high load areas.
An example of such can be seen on Cal
40' masts, here http://www.cal40.com/files/TEMP001.pdf
Plus, barring this, generally the strength of a lot of mast tubes are beefed up via other means, when designing & constructing spreader bases, & tang attachments.
So, such can also be done when adding tangs for runners. And it's commonplace for "extra" mast support to be built into the attachments of the various types of inner forestays. Even if it's just the addition of a "nose" to serve as the stay's tang.
Similarly, with Carbon Fiber spars, extra material is built into the tube in the vicinity of high load areas. However, with them, you definitely need expert input, prior to adding Any fittings to the spar.
And on wooden masts, there's often blocking inside of them in these areas. In addition to the fact that the spreader bases on them generally have a significant sized metal "footprints" for attaching such fittings & rigging
BTW, while I'm not familiar with Hunter's modified B&R rigs. It's common to add "permanent" backstays to boats which don't (or marginally) need them. So as to be able to bend the mast, for better trimming of the Main. As well as being able to tune headstay sag.