Replacing seacocks, Groco IBV with base or FBV?

[chowdan]

Hey all,

As i prepare for a haul out, i'm trying to get things in order and one of the projects on the list is going to be reducing thru-hull count as well as replacing most if not all my thru-hulls and seacocks. One of the things that i'm trying to determine is what style of seacock should i go for.

I'm fairly convinced on going with Groco as they have a good reputation and I can source them locally fairly quickly.

Looking through their catalog as well as Mainesail's website, i'm fairly conflicted.

I've noticed that the Groco states the FBV is a chrome plated brass ball inside, which does not make sense to me, but it is what it is, they also have ones with a stainless steel ball as well.

I see a benefit to the FBV but with these internal components, any sort of corrosion(IE maybe poor dock neighbors) could really do some damage to the ball and require a haul for replacement.

The IBV units are also a chrome plated brass ball so the same issue applies, however these units are to be threaded onto the IBVF(the flange thats permanently mounted), so in theory, one could easily jump in the water and plug the thru-hull and replace the ball valve. This is the big benefit that makes me lean towards the IBV with the base over the FBV.

Is there other benefits that i'm overlooking that make the FBV better? Is there a reason to NOT go with the IBV with the flanged base?

[Bowdrie]

A big appeal of the "IBV" series is the easy replacement without disturbing the base unit.
Typically, smaller boats usually have only a 2>3 different sized seacocks, and with the IBFs you can carry a spare, or if need be, remove the valve and screw on a pipe cap until a repair/replacement can be done.
The chrome plating gives a finish that doesn't score the PTFE seals.
The "All in one" FBV series gives a lower profile, but as you say, if needing new parts you gotta figure out a way to stop the water flooding in.
Of course, there is the "BV" series that uses a stainless ball, but the prices are enough to cause a heart attack.
With the IBF mounting flanges you're not limited to only the matching valve from Groco, another whole world of product line(s) opens up.
Check-out the Conbraco/Apollo valves.
http://www.apollovalves.com/products#/criteria?page=1&filter={%22categories%22:[%227%22]}

[rslifkin]

I'd do the IBVF + IBV combo personally (or IBVF with another good quality valve). I'd only go to the 1 piece units if you either find a higher end valve than the IBF from another manufacturer or want to spend up for the Groco BV series.

[s/v Jedi]

The flanged adapters are the perfect solution. I have both options and didn’t have any trouble with either.

I also have bronze caps that screw onto the flanged adapters in case of shtf situations.

[Bycrick]

After having them on my first boat, long ago, I like the old tapered plug through-hulls. Yes, you had to maintain them, but it was relatively easy. But now they’re quite expensive. If one is going to go with ball-valves, in their almost infinite variations, I like the adapter/ball-valve combination. When the valve itself has a problem, it’s easy to change. Thus the worry about which parts are brass/bronze/SS of some kind/with or without chrome plating, etc. becomes an academic exercise.

[chowdan]

Thanks everyone for the response. I think i'll go with the IBV and appropriate flange. It makes sense being able to A: cap if the valve fails and B: replace the valve when(not if) it wears out.

My engine thru-hull ball valve is always open regardless of the handle position, so being able to strip the valve and replace is incredibly appealing.

I do have some tapered cone thru-hulls but they are not metal-on-metal seal, they have a rubber section that squishes around the cone that seals up. It works fine, but the rubber has a lot of cracks and is not perfectly sealing(and the compression nut on some are either siezed or broken). Maybe i'll refurbish them and sell them off.

The IBVF system really gave me thought that "i must be missing something as to why builders aren't using this - there must be something to it" but then reading everyones comment here made me realize its just a pure cost saving point.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by chowdan

The IBVF system really gave me thought that "i must be missing something as to why builders aren't using this - there must be something to it" but then reading everyones comment here made me realize its just a pure cost saving point.

Yup, a lot of builders are just cheap. The IBVF setup is also relatively new in the world of seacocks, so some builders also have just kept doing what they've always done instead of switching to something new.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by chowdan

I do have some tapered cone thru-hulls but they are not metal-on-metal seal, they have a rubber section that squishes around the cone that seals up. It works fine, but the rubber has a lot of cracks and is not perfectly sealing(and the compression nut on some are either siezed or broken). Maybe i'll refurbish them and sell them off.

Perhaps the ones you have are the old "SV" Groco model?
They were a decent design but could "freeze up" if not used much.
It had popular use for sewage applications as tightening the rubber covered plug made them "no drip" for black water, as they didn't depend upon a lapped/greased surface for a seal.
Sometimes spare cones/plugs are still found but the newer designs are more user friendly.

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Perhaps the ones you have are the old "SV" Groco model?
They were a decent design but could "freeze up" if not used much.
It had popular use for sewage applications as tightening the rubber covered plug made them "no drip" for black water, as they didn't depend upon a lapped/greased surface for a seal.
Sometimes spare cones/plugs are still found but the newer designs are more user friendly.

Boy those look very similar to mine, but mine dont have any markings on them. I'm sure i could service them and clean them up, but not entirely sure how i'd feel about it mentally knowing for $2k or less i could have all new ones in with backing plates and have a system thats fully replaceable or capable.

[Saltyhog]

Another benefit of the IBVF setup is that you can use a bronze street elbow between the flange adapter and the valve for a much lower profile installation.

[KWISPEL]

Why not Marlon true-hulls from Trudesign or another brand?

I placed them and for me were they perfect.
- Price was a lot lower and they work years later still perfectly fine.
- Les condensation on the valves.
- No discollering.
- They are resistant to freezing temperatures.
- I glued them in the hull with epoxy, but most people bedded them in Sica or a similar kit. First was I also not convinced and placed I one true hull in the hull.
2 days later was I very surprised how they were bounded with the hull. It was completely impossible to remove the thru hull. The only way to remove them was with a drill! I could even not twist or crack them with a wrench from 20 inches.

More and more people start to place them and Groco is still a perfect valve!

[sinnerman]

I replaced all of my thru hulls with the Groco IBVF flanged adapters and the screw on in-line ball valves (IBV).

My original thru hulls were fiber glassed-in metal "pipes" one of which was plastic. (yikes).

I went with the separate flange/valve assy (instead of the FBV with the valve built into the flange ) for the same reason that others have stated which is that the valve could be replaced without pulling the boat. Also, my local marine supplier did not carry the FBV flanged ball valve.

The FBV is stronger and more compact however if you want to go the extra mile.

I used the Groco backing plates (BB1) which are bonded to the hull with 5200. The 5200 was Groco technical support's recommendation as it is less 'brittle" than thickened epoxy resin.

The Groco backing plates are expensive but they allow you to professionally install the valves, and what the heck, you are only going to do this once...

You can manufacture your own plates if your want to go that route.

The valves are bolted to the backing plates with stainless machine bolts and washers (actually hex headed machine "screws" as they are threaded from tip to toe with no shank).

3M 4000 (again Groco's suggestion) is used to seal the mushroom thru-hull to the hull as well as to the flanged fitting. Put the sealant on all but the top 1/8-1/4" of the threads as well as on the underside of the flange. Make sure to cut the thru hull to proper length before putting on the sealant...( ) .

As per Groco tech support, make sure to put sealant on ALL but of the threads (except the very top ones) or yuo may get "seepage" along the threads...

Another hint is to dry assemble the entire assembly, bolt it to the flange and test fit it in the boat. Put some referenced lines with a black sharpie on the blacking plate, hull , valve etc. so when it is all glued in place, the valve handle is where you want it.

I am happy with my installation and so far everyone who has seen it really liked it..

Cheers