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Old 08-08-2015, 09:44   #31
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

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Originally Posted by meridian28 View Post
Try a rubber cleanout plug from the hardware store.
My thinking exactly. Sounds like a seldom problem so why go to extended complications? I can't see extensive sink use in heavy weather?
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:49   #32
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

Not a specific made for item. But it would work and six simple screw to remove if there is ever any drain clogging.


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Old 08-08-2015, 10:09   #33
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
My thinking exactly. Sounds like a seldom problem so why go to extended complications? I can't see extensive sink use in heavy weather?
Seriously, I don't think the answer is relying on a small rubber plug from a hardware store.

The boat has a fully functional, quality seacock. Just make sure it's accessible next time you sail, and use it.
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Old 08-08-2015, 10:20   #34
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
Put the new galley sink on centerline.
I second that motion...you'll notice many modern designs with the galley sink sticking way into the cabin, so that its on, or close to the centreline of the boat.

I'm guessing your sink is off to one side, the low side when it fills.

I suppose an alternative would be to have two sinks, one on each side..."coming about...tack the jib...hey below, tack the sink!"

Seriously though, I almost sank my boat from seawater backing up through the head in conditions similar to what you describe. I went below and found myself ankle deep in seawater. To lose the boat for the sake of closing a valve...how embarrassing.
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Old 08-08-2015, 10:22   #35
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

You could just install a gate valve or other form of short valve on the bottom of the sink where you can reach it.
Another option is a check valve, although on a galley sink, not sure if food debris etc will be a problem with a check valve.
Could a cockpit drain with the little ping pong ball type of check valve work? I doubt it.


The easiest solution may be high end sink drain hardware. They make them with sink stoppers that have large threads that hold the stopper in... sealed tight.
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Old 08-08-2015, 10:26   #36
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
...In regards to getting to the seacocks. There is just no way...
You have an unsafe boat. It is up to you to correct these safety issues. If stored items prevent you from accessing sea cocks, relocate the stored items or relocate the sea cocks.

Never install a check valve in bilge pump plumbing.
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Old 08-08-2015, 10:52   #37
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

My sink drains into a two gallon bucket.
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Old 08-08-2015, 11:01   #38
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

i have the same problem. my through hull is too high up on the port side. it will help in planning to figure out where the waterline is and mark it on the cabnetry. 1. i will remount the thruhll directly under the drain. This will also make it much easier to open / close.
2. i will add a one way valve to the drain--the 1 1/2" ones are $21 CDN.
3. i had also thought to keep the existing set up and add a tank in my bilge that the sink could be diverted to with a "y" valve and pumped out with a diaphram pump (so as not to be plugged up with lumps). this would also keep the water clean in really low circulation or pristine anchorages.
all the best, mark
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Old 08-08-2015, 11:32   #39
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

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...2. i will add a one way valve to the drain--the 1 1/2" ones are $21 CDN.
3. i had also thought to keep the existing set up and add a tank in my bilge that the sink could be diverted to with a "y" valve and pumped out with a diaphram pump (so as not to be plugged up with lumps)...
Both of these will add maintenance, unnecessary complexity and expense.
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Old 08-08-2015, 12:16   #40
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Folks,
I would have closed the seacock for the drain but is was very inaccessible at the time - being located in our locker way down at the bottom under a lot of crap that had been placed in the locker. Closing the seacock and keeping it closed is not really a long term solution when you consider that we would like to take some extended offshore trips where closing and opening the seacock throughout the day and night would be inconvenient.

Ideas and suggestions?
I wonder? Could any of the ‘crap’ in that locker, be moving about when the boat is pounding through the water, well heeled? Is it at all possible that in the process that seacock is damaged by being bashed? And once that water starts pouring in those electronic pumps quickly become wet and stop working. Of course seacocks are a cause of boat sinking. They’re a hole in the hull.

It is just basic seamanship to close all seacocks on a passage. And of course seacocks must be accessible. And as someone pointed out each one should have a plug readily available in the event of failure.

I find it somewhat bizarre that people suggest all manner of plugs, alternative drain points, relocating the sink etc. Reality check perhaps. Seacock accessibility is boat design 101.

Actually a friend of mine with a Westerley Conway has just a spent considerable sum to move a couple of the boat’s seacocks to make them accessible. One was located behind a water tank and the other obstructed by the motor.
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Old 08-08-2015, 13:55   #41
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
You have an unsafe boat. It is up to you to correct these safety issues. If stored items prevent you from accessing sea cocks, relocate the stored items or relocate the sea cocks.

Never install a check valve in bilge pump plumbing.
I understand what you are saying but there are a lot of Cabo Rico's out there that have completed high latitude circumnavigations just fine.

I do not disagree with you that getting to seacocks is important but I highly doubt there are any under 40 foot cutters out there circumnavigating that doesn't have problems accessing at least some of their sea cocks. Several of the boats listed on both bluewaterboats.org and Mahina Expeditions have seacock that are difficult to access in an emergency. I know because we looked at them when searching for a boat.

To categorize the boat as being unsafe would not only contradict the designs of just about every renowned designer of traditional blue water sailboats from the last century but maybe even be a little hyperbole.

There is simply no place to relocate any items anywhere so that is a non-starter solution and I am OK with that - we feel we willing to take our chances with regular prevention and a solid dewatering plan. We don't store anything heavy in the locker: fenders, lines, gallons of oil (more likely to break open before breaking a seacock), filters, and our sail covers. Even if the boat rolled they are secure by virtue of being held in place by fenders and sail covers.

Anyhow, back to the sink issue. Yes, it would be nice to have a sink central but that just not the way the boat was designed. That's also a non-starter.

I'm thinking that the bucket thing is probably going to be our best and safest bet. Keep the seacock closed and toss the cleaning and rinse water overboard, or even just do the wash on deck.

I would add that the root cause of this issue was not the placement of the sink, the seacock, or the design of the boat, but the fact that we had absolutely loaded the boat with cases and cases of beer and heavy stuff. Which combined with all the the heavy stuff like the dinghy on the davits caused the boat to squat and when heeled to port caused the issue. I do believe that rebalancing the boat by moving the dinghy forward (we are switching to a roll up dinghy) and removing a lot of unnecessary stuff from the the boat, we will regain some waterline where we need it.
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Old 08-08-2015, 14:13   #42
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

Buy a plug for the sink as others have said. A few minutes in a hardware store, a few bucks and the problem solved. Our old Westsail would fill the sink and flood the galley on stbd tack in force 4 or above winds. Bought a plug and sailed for thousands of miles and 10 years with the plug. Closing the sea cock also solved the problem but it was one of those old rubber cored types that were humbug to open or close.
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Old 08-08-2015, 15:03   #43
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

On older lead mines like Carina this was a common problem. I designed the interior to bring the galley sinks as close to the centerline as possible, but ultimately was defeated by how low she sits in the water - at rest the water just comes into the bottom of the sink. Dropping that a few inches by clearing out some excess items would be a marginal improvement - probably not enough to serve underway - and would leave gray water in the hose.

My solution is to pump the sinks overboard, via a vented loop. The seacock is just below the sinks, and when leaving for a few days I always close it. I have two pumps in parallel; one is a manual bilge pump and the other is a Whale Gulper electric pump. With the Gulper I have not had a need to use the manual pump, but the previous impeller pump was constantly breaking (dish detergent dries out the impeller causing it to stick). The electric pump is operated by a heavy duty push button near the sink. Between the vented loop and the convenient seacock I consider this a very safe system, and pushing a button to drain the sink is not really a burden.


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Old 08-08-2015, 16:25   #44
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

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Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
Seriously, I don't think the answer is relying on a small rubber plug from a hardware store.

The boat has a fully functional, quality seacock. Just make sure it's accessible next time you sail, and use it.
Mark, I don't disagree but I'd bet he could clear the junk out in order to get to the seacock in a pinch. I don't even agree with the sink draining below the water line. Again it is just my humble opinion.
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Old 08-08-2015, 16:34   #45
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Re: Galley Sink Fills With Water

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I understand what you are saying but there are a lot of Cabo Rico's out there that have completed high latitude circumnavigations just fine.

I do not disagree with you that getting to seacocks is important but I highly doubt there are any under 40 foot cutters out there circumnavigating that doesn't have problems accessing at least some of their sea cocks. Several of the boats listed on both bluewaterboats.org and Mahina Expeditions have seacock that are difficult to access in an emergency. I know because we looked at them when searching for a boat.

To categorize the boat as being unsafe would not only contradict the designs of just about every renowned designer of traditional blue water sailboats from the last century but maybe even be a little hyperbole.

There is simply no place to relocate any items anywhere so that is a non-starter solution and I am OK with that - we feel we willing to take our chances with regular prevention and a solid dewatering plan. We don't store anything heavy in the locker: fenders, lines, gallons of oil (more likely to break open before breaking a seacock), filters, and our sail covers. Even if the boat rolled they are secure by virtue of being held in place by fenders and sail covers.

Anyhow, back to the sink issue. Yes, it would be nice to have a sink central but that just not the way the boat was designed. That's also a non-starter.

I'm thinking that the bucket thing is probably going to be our best and safest bet. Keep the seacock closed and toss the cleaning and rinse water overboard, or even just do the wash on deck.

I would add that the root cause of this issue was not the placement of the sink, the seacock, or the design of the boat, but the fact that we had absolutely loaded the boat with cases and cases of beer and heavy stuff. Which combined with all the the heavy stuff like the dinghy on the davits caused the boat to squat and when heeled to port caused the issue. I do believe that rebalancing the boat by moving the dinghy forward (we are switching to a roll up dinghy) and removing a lot of unnecessary stuff from the the boat, we will regain some waterline where we need it.
Well, it's your boat and you have to live with it. I'm not sure what the 'high latitude' comment has to do with it, but then I guess I live in a low latitude area, so not familiar with the Middle latitudes. But those suggesting your boat is not safe I'd suggest have a point you should listen too. Whether you have made the boat unsafe from over loading or through a design flaw I'm not certain from what your saying. But your claim that there are many designs out there where manufacturers 'design' a boat with a seacock in a hard to get at place I just struggle to believe. For a start every manufacturer seeks to reach a basic survey requirement so that their prospective owners can place a boat in survey and what your suggesting would immediately rule out that proposition. For example, that means those manufacturers boats can never be used for hire.

It would also rule out any ability for that model of boat to be used in any catagory of racing (1-6) as an easily accessible seacock with an emergency plug is required for ALL. Even inshore racing. It's a very basic safety requirement and your boat seems to contradict that and your claiming manufacturers deliberately build new boats like that? Well, I doubt it. But I don't have the technical knowledge to be certain.

My boat has a centre line sink and it still gurgles in heavy seas and in really heavy seas I need to turn the seacock off or salt water is splashed lightly but annoyingly over the sink. It never fills the sink as it continuously empties. The plug won't remain in when this happens. But, when we are in seas like this I can't recall any time I needed to use the sink anyway. So the solution for me is to just turn it off whilst underway.

A picture of where your problem is might assist. Otherwise the easiest solution is to put a valve directly under the sink. But this doesn't fix the safety issue I suspect you have. peace now.
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