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Old 24-12-2009, 23:59   #46
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Cat Man Do.. that was fantastic... it's obvious you have done your sums. The photos of your boat are awesome and the quality of your arguments impeccable. This has been great reading. Great myth busting.

I'll be rethinking my project. Not to imitate, because I will have a different boat but there are certainly points made I will be digesting.

I'm new here. But I'll be looking for other threads of yours. You took a lot of time for this, thanks! And thats the point of this post!

Cheers
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Old 06-01-2012, 20:09   #47
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

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Originally Posted by 7SeasSailor View Post
Hey CatManDo: Please. A cat is a platform for landlubbers. Cats skuttle from one protected anchorage to another looking to avoid the weather. You certainly don't want to be caught in nasty weather on a catamaran. Read that book about the cat that flipped in New Zealand and you'll think twice if you're the fat guy and your buddies are looking at you like dinner after a few days. You are building a power cat which is not a sailboat anyway so you're making a condo that floats - you can use all the home appliances you want. In the end, you're better off staying home and buying a time share condo on the beach and forgo the problems you'll encounter if you ever leave the dock for more than a couple of hours.
Hahaha. My thoughts exactly. They don't go sailing . the only thing they dont do differently than living in the suburbs, is cut the grass on Saturday morning. Where to put the jacuzzi comes next.
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Old 06-01-2012, 20:42   #48
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

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Hahaha.
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Old 06-01-2012, 21:18   #49
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

I hope this doesn't turn into a mono vs multi thread, but it probably already has.
I remember a (loudmouth) friend who decried watermakers, solar panels etc.
To quote him, "Bah, when we sailed to Hawaii, we didn't have watermakers, solar panels, GPS or refrigeration! We took sun sights, and made it to Washington State with our wits !!"
His wife added, "Yeah, and we ran out of water almost 3 days before we hit land!"

Technology and design improvements shouldn't be poo poo'ed unless there's a good reason.
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Old 06-01-2012, 21:37   #50
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

To add some real world experience as opposed to ignorant monocular ranting, we've now been running a domestic fridge and freezer off an inverter for two years, with no problems.

Fridge and freezer cost just over $500 Au for the pair. 1500 Watt PSW inverter cost $310 each. I have two, in case one fails. (I also use the spare to run the breadmaker, a washing machine and any power tools etc..)

Power consumption is a bit higher, but not massively so compared to my last boat's marine fridge. (When it worked) I can run the entire boat, including watermaker, breadmaker etc, off the 600Watt solar array, with MPPT controller.

I've been told most 12 volt refrigeration compressors use capilliary evaporators, while 240 volt use thermal expansion valves, which are more efficient. Which might explain the small difference in power consumption. Don't know how factual this is though...

And the whole lot was cheaper than buying the guts of a marine fridge, and having to build my own cabinet around it. And then I'd still have to find the amps to run it.

I can't say whether this setup would work in a mono. Not much about them does seem to work, so possibly this type of refrigeration wouldn't either.

Flat batteries overnight? Not even close.
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Old 06-01-2012, 21:38   #51
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

Hi Cat Man you sound like a fair dinkum Blue Ozzie Cheers !!!! Here is a thought for you which is cost effective and really works I built my 100 ltr fridge from a large roto molded ice box then inserted it into a 100mm ( 4in ) foam box with a nice timber build around that. Then I fitted a Danfos unit that came with my boat (unknow age) this has now been running non stop for 9 years (only stopped to defrost) I also run a Waeco 50ltr freezer.

I have 360w of solar and Air breeze wind. Just returned from 5mths up north and did not start gen set or motor for power in that time " Yar no footprint ". Some of the new ice boxes are now made from F/G and are really smart with good fitting lids and easy to install Im sure they have 200ltr units so might be an option as I have friends with domestic units that work fine but rust is the problem !!! I will keep an eye out for your power cat with the Green flash Im on a mono but I will talk to you Jacko
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Old 06-01-2012, 22:44   #52
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
To add some real world experience as opposed to ignorant monocular ranting, we've now been running a domestic fridge and freezer off an inverter for two years, with no problems.

Fridge and freezer cost just over $500 Au for the pair. 1500 Watt PSW inverter cost $310 each. I have two, in case one fails. (I also use the spare to run the breadmaker, a washing machine and any power tools etc..)

Power consumption is a bit higher, but not massively so compared to my last boat's marine fridge. (When it worked) I can run the entire boat, including watermaker, breadmaker etc, off the 600Watt solar array, with MPPT controller.

I've been told most 12 volt refrigeration compressors use capilliary evaporators, while 240 volt use thermal expansion valves, which are more efficient. Which might explain the small difference in power consumption. Don't know how factual this is though...

And the whole lot was cheaper than buying the guts of a marine fridge, and having to build my own cabinet around it. And then I'd still have to find the amps to run it.

I can't say whether this setup would work in a mono. Not much about them does seem to work, so possibly this type of refrigeration wouldn't either.

Flat batteries overnight? Not even close.
Hi and glad to see your real life example working as expected.

Are you prepared to post up a list of the bits (brand & model No's) to get this working?

Will certainly save a lot of hit and miss for the average mug

Thanks
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:43   #53
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

Sorry I just can't make the math work on a 115 VAC refrig. drawing 1.6 amps on a cruising sailboat. I'm sure I am missing something.
1.6 amps AC X 115 VAC = 184 watts
184 watts / 12 VDC = 15.3 ADC per hour
If the refrig runs only 50% of the time 15.3 ADC / 50% = 7.65 ADC per hour. 7.65 ADC X 24 hours = 183.6 ADC needed for 1- 24hr day.
7.65 ADC supplied with a solar panel (s) that can produce for 8 hours @ 7.65 A
would require 1 panel @ 91.8 watts. To just keep up with the drain in a 24 hour day for this refrig. 3 solar panels @ 92 watts are needed which is a very large footprint on a sailboat.
Is my math wrong ?
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Old 08-01-2012, 13:03   #54
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

Where did you get the 1.6 amp/184 watt figure from? My fridge takes about 70 watts when it's running. Checked with one of those powersmart monitors.
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Old 08-01-2012, 14:37   #55
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

This old thread never dies!

On EVERY commercial vessel I have ever seen, there was a regular terrestrial fridge in the galley... Some even had restaurant sized fridges!

On every boat I have ever owned, when the "marine" fridge died, it got replaced by a household one; never had an issue or problem. The only thing I do different is screw them down and fab some sort of door latch.
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Old 08-01-2012, 14:57   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat
Where did you get the 1.6 amp/184 watt figure from? My fridge takes about 70 watts when it's running. Checked with one of those powersmart monitors.
You need to measure the 12V DC both amperage and voltage going into the inverter. Also, the compressor might have multiple speeds and ramp up after some time etc.

I wonder in which climate you use this and how much volume fridge and freezer are. Also, at which temperatures you keep them.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 08-01-2012, 15:26   #57
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

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This old thread never dies!

On every boat I have ever owned, when the "marine" fridge died, it got replaced by a household one; never had an issue or problem. The only thing I do different is screw them down and fab some sort of door latch.
Yes, since this thread never dies, and I still had a marine fridge when I contributed back in 2009(!), I now have a household fridge running off my inverter (eur 130) with exactly the same stated energy consumption as an equivalent replacement marine fridge (eur 900)..
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Old 08-01-2012, 15:27   #58
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

I'm with you Capngeo... on most of my deliveries and charters, 65-90 foot range in the last few years, there was full size shoreside refrigeration along with separate freezers, ice makers and wine/beers coolers. Some of us have just got used to the creature comforts, I guess... Capt Phil
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Old 08-01-2012, 16:31   #59
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

HWMO took all the wiry things and the switchy things out of a household fridge, and installed them into a custom made top opening fridge and freezer, and both work great.

We keep the freezer filled with milk bottles containing water, which is delicious to drink as it thaws (and we hit 50C for four or five months every year here, so that's gotta be good!) and gives us extra chilling for cool boxes when we need them.
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Old 08-01-2012, 17:51   #60
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Re: Can a Household Refrigerator Work on a Sailboat?

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HWMO took all the wiry things and the switchy things out of a household fridge, and installed them into a custom made top opening fridge and freezer, and both work great.

We keep the freezer filled with milk bottles containing water, which is delicious to drink as it thaws (and we hit 50C for four or five months every year here, so that's gotta be good!) and gives us extra chilling for cool boxes when we need them.
That is exactly what I’m planning for the ice box on Happy Days
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