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Old 04-05-2018, 14:07   #1
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documenting days at sea for OUPV

Looking for clarification on counting days that are not on my own boat. From my internet researching it looks like you need to owner of the boat to sign the Coast Guard form. This would mean that generally speaking I couldn't include time on bareboat charters? I am assuming that chasing down the actual owner of the charter boat and them being willing to sign the document would not be practical in most cases.


Could those that know please tell me if my understanding is correct.

Thanks for the help

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Old 04-05-2018, 14:54   #2
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

You got it right. Unless you can get the charter company to have the vessel owner sign off!
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Old 04-05-2018, 15:12   #3
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

It does not have to be the "owner".

Every time it was time to renew my license, a "sea time" letter from my employer (the sailing school/charter company) was sufficient to document my sea time. We certainly did not have to go to the owners of each of the boats to have them sign off.

The same sailing school/charter company documented sea time for students and charter customers.

If you really have a question about this, why on earth ask here? Call the local USCG examiners office. They are very helpful, and used to answering such questions.
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Old 04-05-2018, 15:49   #4
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

Why don't you look at the USCG form itself Small Vessel Sea Service Form

The form must be signed by the "owner, operator, or master"

Quote:
-The Owner, Operator, or Master must complete the remainder of this form
-If you are the owner of the vessel, proof of ownership must be provided

Owner, Operator, or Master Read Before Signing.... perjury warning...
If you chartered a bareboat you are both operator and master (presuming that was your position in any group/family) and can sign your own sea service form. If you chartered a skippered boat then it becomes more complicated, although operator may still apply.

Not a sea lawyer, as advised above, check with the local examiner's office.
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:52   #5
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
Why don't you look at the USCG form itself Small Vessel Sea Service Form

The form must be signed by the "owner, operator, or master"



If you chartered a bareboat you are both operator and master (presuming that was your position in any group/family) and can sign your own sea service form. If you chartered a skippered boat then it becomes more complicated, although operator may still apply.

Not a sea lawyer, as advised above, check with the local examiner's office.
This is the right answer. For up to 100t you can self document. Once you start getting into bigger licenses the Coasties start looking at your sea time more seriously.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:53   #6
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
Why don't you look at the USCG form itself Small Vessel Sea Service Form

The form must be signed by the "owner, operator, or master"



If you chartered a bareboat you are both operator and master (presuming that was your position in any group/family) and can sign your own sea service form. If you chartered a skippered boat then it becomes more complicated, although operator may still apply.

Not a sea lawyer, as advised above, check with the local examiner's office.
Here is the answer :-)

Be as accurate as you can but at the end of the day no one goes through your sea service UNTIL you really screw up!
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:11   #7
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

For sea time on OPBs, I write the letter for them (I use the same letter for everyone but just change the vessel data and dates), and ask them to sign.
Never been a question/issue for all parties. Charter companies are more than willing to sign, as well as any other entity's boat that I skipper/crew. The letter makes it a bit more official than self-attesting.
PM me if you want to plagiarize my form letter.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:52   #8
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

Like it was said above: The form must be signed by the "owner, operator, or master"

For US flag vessels you can easily find the owner by searching the NVDC website by Official Number or boat name. Do a "Print Preview" and print a .pdf of the entry and attached to your Sea Service for. CG - 719S. If you have the vessel documentation attach that too. That's what I do with my own boat and I sign as Master since the doc is in my wife's name. With your own boat it's an honor system but, as mentioned, right up to the point where the want to hang you for something.

For other boats, including foreign, I would write down the hull number and boat name and if I weren't the skipper I'd get his/her name and email and send him/her a completed form and ask to have it signed and return. For charters I include a copy of my charter company's invoice which shows me as the "charterer" and therefore the master.

Here's some stuff on the subject that I previously posted on this forum, I think it's still current:

Use Sea Service Form (CG - 719S). A “sea day” is defined as 4 hours continuously underway. Don’t go for two hours, anchor for lunch, and then go for another two hours, none of it will count. A “sea day” is also defined as within the same calendar day. If you depart at 22:00 hrs. Monday and complete your voyage at 03:00 hrs. Tuesday it generally will not count either. There is an excepting for commercial voyages over six hours spanning two calendar days which allows one or one and a half sea day to be logged.
Sea service on any vessel, commercial, recreational, military, police, etc., will count as long as it meets the above requirements. If you were a crew member on a military vessel they will provide you with proof, or at least the Navy & Coast Guard will.
Row boats, kayaks and canoes (human powered) generally don’t count even though they may be considered “powered vessels” for Rules of the Road purposes. Strap an outboard motor (or sail) on to your canoe and motor around for four hours each day for 360 days (OUPV) or 720 days (Master) and you’ve got it. Don’t laugh, I’ve heard it’s been done.
I think any Master application original or up-grade still requires a vessel of 5-GRT minimum and that will get you a 25 ton license.
Note: Any master's ticket is good up to 100-GRT for OUPV only but mindful of the OUPV limits (6-pack, no cargo, no foreign ops, etc.).
The Sea Service forms must be signed by the vessel owner, master or other authorized person connected with the vessel or its owner. Years ago they had to be notarized but no more, it’s the honor system.
I go to the USCG Vessel Documentation Center website and look up the vessel by name or Official Number (for US documented vessels only). That record will show who owns the vessel, their address and data about it, including Gross Registered Tonnage, for you license grade or up-grade. I select “print preview” on the web page with the information on screen, print it out and affix it to each copy of the Sea Service form I’m going to submit to the USCG for renewal or up-grade.
Sea days on any vessel, foreign or USCG documented, state registered, military, etc. or not registered at all, are usable if supported by complete information.
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Old 07-05-2018, 04:39   #9
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

I have always had the site manager of the charter company sign the form for me. It may be that I could sign it myself, and the Coast Guard would accept that, but I figure that having the one who is responsible for managing the boat sign it is probably more "official." And I have yet to find a charter company where the manager wasn't completely familiar with the form, and had not signed many of them before.
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Old 08-05-2018, 19:02   #10
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

Thank you to those that provided helpful and relavant responses and also managed to leave out the sarcastic and demeaning remarks. Never surprised but always a little disappointed by some.

Thank

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Old 13-05-2018, 13:22   #11
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

Maybe I missed it. I have been thinking of taking the OUPV classes. I have been cruising and sailing 30 years and it just never occured to me to document my actual time on the water. I can make some educated guesses on boats that I have owned. Is that generally Ok? It would seem there is no way to verify this and, given my signature as the "owner" it is taken for granted? Maybe some advice before I sink $$ into this. Thanks, Mike.
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Old 13-05-2018, 14:22   #12
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

If you are using time on boats that you previously owned it's best to find as much documentation to the prove that fact as possible. If any of your boats were US documented it's easy, just request an abstract of title from the USCG National Vessel Documentation Center ($75 up from $25 a couple of years ago). It will show the current owner and all previous owners. If your boats were only state registered you may be able to retrieve this information from state or local sources agencies, even marina or boat yard bills will help. Append all this you can get to your application.

The sea-time documentation for USCG issued licenses uses the honor system for the lesser tonnages and the OUPV. If you served on military vessels the service will provide you with proof of your sea-time.

The NVDC is a bureaucratic organization, as such they like to see a lot of paperwork and supporting evidence. But, remember a sea-day is defined as 4 hours continuously underway. If you sail for two hours and stop for lunch and then sail for another two hours, none of it counts. Also remember making a false statement to the USCG is perjury.
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Old 14-05-2018, 10:01   #13
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

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Originally Posted by jmschmidt View Post
But, remember a sea-day is defined as 4 hours continuously underway. If you sail for two hours and stop for lunch and then sail for another two hours, none of it counts.
The requirements for documenting sea service are laid out in CFR 46 10.232. There is nothing at all in there to indicate that the hours accumulated to make a "day" have to be continuous.
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Old 14-05-2018, 11:21   #14
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

denverd0n, Sorry, but you looked at the wrong reg.

Day means, for the purpose of complying with the service requirements of this subchapter, 8 hours of watchstanding or day-working not to include overtime. On vessels authorized by 46 U.S.C. 8104 and 46 CFR 15.705, to operate a two-watch system, a 12-hour working day may be creditable as 11⁄2 days of service. On vessels of less than 100 GRT, a day is considered as 8 hours unless the Coast Guard determines that the vessel's operating schedule makes this criteria inappropriate; in no case will this period be less than 4 hours. When computing service on MODUs for any endorsement, a day of MODU service must be a minimum of 4 hours, and no additional credit is received for periods served over 8 hours. For cadet service on a training ship furnished by the Maritime Administration under 46 CFR 310.4, a day may be creditable as 11⁄2 days of service.
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Old 14-05-2018, 12:52   #15
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Re: documenting days at sea for OUPV

Um... Yeah... Four hours. Right. That's in there. Continuous, though? Nope. Nothing indicates that you must be continuously underway for the four hour period. It just says that they normally consider eight hours to be a day, but under some circumstances will consider as little as four hours (though no less) to be a day.
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