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Old 06-07-2013, 17:06   #16
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Re: Test Drive

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Your absolutely right about that. All they can do is say no, right.
One thing for sure. The answer is no if you don't ask. Go for it !
I have been thinking exactly the same way. Will Work For Boat Rides, or pay...
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Old 06-07-2013, 21:39   #17
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Re: Test Drive

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I'm pulling for GG to pull this off somehow. She'll need professional crew for quite some while and depending on the boat perhaps always... But she's determined and the barriers appear to be experience... and in time on her boat she'll get it. I look forward to learning of her progress once she's a boat owner.
Thanks Jef!!!
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Old 12-07-2013, 10:50   #18
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Re: Test Drive

When we bought the Eagle we stayed on it a couple of week end tied to the dock, but we were more interested in a dock condo at the time. Being a live aboard and/or cruising was not a big consideration/factor at the time of purchase. We became a live aboard after spend 30+ grand up grading and remodling on the boat. A live aboard boat and a cruising boat are not necessarily the same boat, and not many boats are both.

A live aboard boat requires the boat to be used 24/7 365 days per years and a cruise boat for short periods of time especially in the cold climate areas. During the cold time of the years 99% of the live aboard boats are tied to the dock, which requires a boat adequate, alternative AC power, heat, water, sanitation, refrigeration, storage, living space etc for weeks at a time. So if the primary function of the boat is to be a live aboard then actually taking the boat away from the dock for a week is not going to do much.

In the colder climates, dead of winter, is the time to stay on the boat to get the feel idea of the boat and if its an adequate live aboard, NOT the warm bright summer. So I would allow a buyer to stay on the boat tied to the dock.
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Old 12-07-2013, 18:34   #19
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Re: Test Drive

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When we bought the Eagle we stayed on it a couple of week end tied to the dock, but we were more interested in a dock condo at the time. Being a live aboard and/or cruising was not a big consideration/factor at the time of purchase. We became a live aboard after spend 30+ grand up grading and remodling on the boat. A live aboard boat and a cruising boat are not necessarily the same boat, and not many boats are both.

A live aboard boat requires the boat to be used 24/7 365 days per years and a cruise boat for short periods of time especially in the cold climate areas. During the cold time of the years 99% of the live aboard boats are tied to the dock, which requires a boat adequate, alternative AC power, heat, water, sanitation, refrigeration, storage, living space etc for weeks at a time. So if the primary function of the boat is to be a live aboard then actually taking the boat away from the dock for a week is not going to do much.

In the colder climates, dead of winter, is the time to stay on the boat to get the feel idea of the boat and if its an adequate live aboard, NOT the warm bright summer. So I would allow a buyer to stay on the boat tied to the dock.
Phil, I understand what your saying.
I was just thinking that maybe any hidden defects in the engine or other systems would show up if I tested the boat for a week. I guess I am more concerned with this particular boat only because it is a custom boat.
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Old 15-07-2013, 00:10   #20
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Re: Test Drive

The main reason for a Sea Trial is to find and locate boat issues that are present and issues that will happen at a later date. Your surveyor should be able to find those problem issues on the sea trial, that is what he is trained and paid to do. He/she should be educated in ships systems and should have a running knowledge of a particular vessel before he/she steps onboard. There really isn't a need to have a surveyor onboard for a week or even a week's cruise with a future owner... I, as a Captain and Sportyacht owner, would not agree to any terms such as you proposed. There would be no benefit for me to do so..
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Old 15-07-2013, 00:44   #21
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Re: Test Drive

I agree that this is a fine Idea! BUT, Im also sure that most owners of a vessel of the type you have been searching for, would never agree to something of this sort ! just to much of a chance that something will break and need repairs that the boat would not need if left at the dock after the sea trial! Theres just no plus to a seller to have a chance of the boat needing repairs during your charter! GG I hope you find a vessel soon, and don't be afraid of a custom boat ! Most of the best long range cruisers ive seen or deliverd over the years, have been custom bilt in good shipyards! Again if it has what ya want, and passes survey, and sea trial, and and engine and trans survey, then thats the boat ya need ! as many have said, try a few charters BEFORE ya make any offers, and they ment Charter Boats not owner boats !! LOL Good luck to ya ! And if Connie and I can be of help, let us know!
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Old 15-07-2013, 07:29   #22
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Re: Test Drive

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I agree that this is a fine Idea! BUT, Im also sure that most owners of a vessel of the type you have been searching for, would never agree to something of this sort ! just to much of a chance that something will break and need repairs that the boat would not need if left at the dock after the sea trial! Theres just no plus to a seller to have a chance of the boat needing repairs during your charter! GG I hope you find a vessel soon, and don't be afraid of a custom boat ! Most of the best long range cruisers ive seen or deliverd over the years, have been custom bilt in good shipyards! Again if it has what ya want, and passes survey, and sea trial, and and engine and trans survey, then thats the boat ya need ! as many have said, try a few charters BEFORE ya make any offers, and they ment Charter Boats not owner boats !! LOL Good luck to ya ! And if Connie and I can be of help, let us know!
Thanks Bob! As soon as my house is under agreement, I am going to check out the custom boat and maybe make an offer
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Old 15-07-2013, 08:04   #23
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Re: Test Drive

GG, there are lots of reasons that folks commission one-off vessels, but the underlying thread in all such decisions is that the production offerings don't have what the buyer wants. Production vessels are designed to appeal to an imaginary "average" customer, and if one's needs deviate from this "average", a one-off is a reasonable approach.

IMO, your needs are somewhat unusual, so the likelihood of a production boat matching them is diminished, and a one-off may have the best chance of matching up. As far as quality issues go, if the boat has been built by a professional shipwright or yard there should be no inherent problems. Sure, the possibility exists that a defect would exist, but the same can be said for any production boat. A skilled shipwright, whose personal reputation is on the line may indeed have far more concern for the quality of the product than the workers in a large "factory".

Over the years I have owned 4 keel boats: one mass production (Catalina), one smaller production (Yankee Yachts), one semi-production by a very famous yard (Palmer Johnson) and one one-off, built by shipwright for his own use. The latter is of higher quality by far than any of her predecessors.

I guess that my point is that you should not be afraid of one-off boats, and that they stand a good chance of meeting your somewhat unusual requirements. Good luck when you finally make a choice and get your plans moving ahead.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 15-07-2013, 12:45   #24
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The main reason for a Sea Trial is to find and locate boat issues that are present and issues that will happen at a later date. Your surveyor should be able to find those problem issues on the sea trial, that is what he is trained and paid to do. He/she should be educated in ships systems and should have a running knowledge of a particular vessel before he/she steps onboard. There really isn't a need to have a surveyor onboard for a week or even a week's cruise with a future owner... I, as a Captain and Sportyacht owner, would not agree to any terms such as you proposed. There would be no benefit for me to do so..
Crazy idea here, but I've noticed surveyors more focused on insurance type issues. Sea trial with someone in the repair buisness might be much more rewarding. As they will be more likely to be accustomed to actually finding and diagnosing issues, as well as likely costs to repair.
If you were to take someone like Minaret along for a sea trial, I suspect you'd get a lot more out of it.
We have a classic case under repair right now. Surveyor signed off. We found major and mandatory to repair issues immediately. Owner is quite upset, but nothing we can do to explain how they missed the problems. Boat was in an accident, and then they put on a different prop and filled the dripless seal with grease amongst other failures.
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Old 15-07-2013, 16:18   #25
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Re: Test Drive

The key words to my latest post above is "should be"...
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Old 15-07-2013, 20:04   #26
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Re: Test Drive

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GG, there are lots of reasons that folks commission one-off vessels, but the underlying thread in all such decisions is that the production offerings don't have what the buyer wants. Production vessels are designed to appeal to an imaginary "average" customer, and if one's needs deviate from this "average", a one-off is a reasonable approach.

IMO, your needs are somewhat unusual, so the likelihood of a production boat matching them is diminished, and a one-off may have the best chance of matching up. As far as quality issues go, if the boat has been built by a professional shipwright or yard there should be no inherent problems. Sure, the possibility exists that a defect would exist, but the same can be said for any production boat. A skilled shipwright, whose personal reputation is on the line may indeed have far more concern for the quality of the product than the workers in a large "factory".

Over the years I have owned 4 keel boats: one mass production (Catalina), one smaller production (Yankee Yachts), one semi-production by a very famous yard (Palmer Johnson) and one one-off, built by shipwright for his own use. The latter is of higher quality by far than any of her predecessors.

I guess that my point is that you should not be afraid of one-off boats, and that they stand a good chance of meeting your somewhat unusual requirements. Good luck when you finally make a choice and get your plans moving ahead.

Cheers,

Jim
Thanks Jim for sharing that info. You make a very good point. I'm going to do some research on the boatyard.
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Old 27-07-2013, 13:38   #27
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Re: Test Drive

Test Drive - the only way to go. Take a drive train repair person with you if you do not have the knowledge.
All kinds of problems can be missed by a person doing a survey. Survey's only help me list the spec's of a boat.
Getting a boat out on the water and driving her around is the only way to have a chance at knowing what she is.
I commercial fish salmon in Cook Inlet Alaska. Seen some of your post. A converted commercial fishing boat would more than likely mean you start with a very seaworthy boat. Your thing about windows at lower level was an eye opener for me, as I have had thoughts of converting my boat to hunting charters. I see your point on windows. There are some built strong enough for waves.
Boat handling takes time and the steering type will make all the difference in the type of skills required.
Please forgive me, I have missed your knowledge/experience level.
Are you planning on doing your own captaining in near future. With time your kids would/could be the crew.
If you have not been on boats before, this is very interesting and brave thinking. I say again, forgive me for not knowing your experience level. You may be a Master Captain for all I know.
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Old 27-07-2013, 14:35   #28
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Re: Test Drive

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Test Drive - the only way to go. Take a drive train repair person with you if you do not have the knowledge.
All kinds of problems can be missed by a person doing a survey. Survey's only help me list the spec's of a boat.
Getting a boat out on the water and driving her around is the only way to have a chance at knowing what she is.
I commercial fish salmon in Cook Inlet Alaska. Seen some of your post. A converted commercial fishing boat would more than likely mean you start with a very seaworthy boat. Your thing about windows at lower level was an eye opener for me, as I have had thoughts of converting my boat to hunting charters. I see your point on windows. There are some built strong enough for waves.
Boat handling takes time and the steering type will make all the difference in the type of skills required.
Please forgive me, I have missed your knowledge/experience level.
Are you planning on doing your own captaining in near future. With time your kids would/could be the crew.
If you have not been on boats before, this is very interesting and brave thinking. I say again, forgive me for not knowing your experience level. You may be a Master Captain for all I know.
I'm a newbie boater, no experience at all, but I do plan on captaining...eventually. Soon as I learn how to operate.

The window issue is a big one for me. I have seen a few boats that were pretty nice, just like the converted boat that you read about on the blog, but I can't get past the lack of windows. Just can't see myself sleeping in a room without them. I love opening windows to get fresh air, especially on the water. Plus I want to smell the sea and hear the waves crash.

Too bad about your wife. She doesn't know what she'll be missing. Doesn't everyone want to liveaboard...LOL
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Old 27-07-2013, 21:25   #29
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Re: Test Drive

Rudder control is the hardest to control, bow thruster would be great if single engine / single rudder. Twin engine gives a lot more control. Power hydraulic steering will be of big help. Autopilot will make any trip easier.
If you do not plan to operate in open water, then windows in lower sections can be added during converting boats.
You might be smart in trying driving a few boats before putting money out on one.
There is a lot to operating a boat, also in keeping one running.
It is a tall hill your looking to climb. Any thing and every thing can be done, good luck.
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Old 28-07-2013, 06:12   #30
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Re: Test Drive

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Any thing and every thing can be done, good luck.
I have plenty of patience. Thanks for the well wishes
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