Perkins 4236 oil dipstick and dipstick tube lengths.

[defatman 2]

Hi, I'm hoping that someone out there can offer me some assistance. I need to know the correct length of both the oil dipstick and dipstick tube for my Perkins 4236M engine (1978) vintage. When changing the oil recently it took 10litres of oil to reach the max mark on the dipstick, as distinct from the 8 litres, quoted in the manual. I suspect that the dipstick tube may be the incorrect length as a brazed repair is visible and it is a copper tube which is unpainted, unlike everything else on the engine. Also, the engine gives out a little blue smoke on start up which disappears relatively quick after the engine heats up somewhat. The engine is very reliable, always starts first time and runs great, are these two problems connected. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[HankOnthewater]

Indeed the manual for the industrial/road version of this engine shows 8 litres as the volume for oil. However in my manual for the marine variant, it shows 9.4 lt..... I am going on memory here.
I guess that these engines come with different (sizes of) sumps. I know my engine takes very close to 10 litres that includes the change of oil filter.
if you like I can scan the relevant pages and email attach them.
I can measure the dipstick as well, however I would be cautious as any dipstick might have been altered or be non-genuine. Over the 30 years or more, lots of things might have happened......
I am on the boat again Wednesday or Thursday. Let me know if you need further info.

[defatman 2]

Hi Hank, thanks for your speedy reply and your assistance. I would be very obliged if you could send those pages and also if you could measure the dipstick tube and the dipstick itself, that would be of great help. Many thanks. Defatman 2.

[Triumphant]

I have a 1984 4236M and it normally takes around 11 litres including the oil filter which I think is about a litre on its own but my engine is not horizontal, it slopes towards the back of the boat

My Perkins Users handbook say the following under Lubricating capacity

Sump 8.2 litres (14.5UK pt) 8.7US Qt

Total 9.4litre (16.5 UK pt) 9.9 US Qt

NOTE
Sump capacity will depend on installation angle and sump type. Fill to dipstick FULL Mark

I assume the Total figure includes the oil filter

Dipstick measurements
From the bottom of the stick to the bottom of the cap at the top 285mm
From the bottom of the stick to the BOTTOM mark 10 mm
From the bottom of the stick to the FULL Mark 30 mm

Dipstick tube measurement
From the top of the nut going into the sump to the bottom of the handle 235mm

Note
Dipstick tube measurement may not be 100% because my tube broke where it joins the nut and it has been replaced with a stainless tube but the guy that did it is pretty accurate and the oil change capacities seem to be the same.

To drift off the subject for a moment, if your tube break where it joins the nut it will only leak ABOVE 1500RPM at about 1 pint an hour

Good luck and have fun

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by Triumphant

I have a 1984 4236M and it normally takes around 11 litres including the oil filter which I think is about a litre on its own but my engine is not horizontal, it slopes towards the back of the boat

My Perkins Users handbook say the following under Lubricating capacity

Sump 8.2 litres (14.5UK pt) 8.7US Qt

Total 9.4litre (16.5 UK pt) 9.9 US Qt

NOTE
Sump capacity will depend on installation angle and sump type. Fill to dipstick FULL Mark

I assume the Total figure includes the oil filter

Dipstick measurements
From the bottom of the stick to the bottom of the cap at the top 285mm
From the bottom of the stick to the BOTTOM mark 10 mm
From the bottom of the stick to the FULL Mark 30 mm

Dipstick tube measurement
From the top of the nut going into the sump to the bottom of the handle 235mm

Note
Dipstick tube measurement may not be 100% because my tube broke where it joins the nut and it has been replaced with a stainless tube but the guy that did it is pretty accurate and the oil change capacities seem to be the same.

To drift off the subject for a moment, if your tube break where it joins the nut it will only leak ABOVE 1500RPM at about 1 pint an hour

Good luck and have fun

@ Triumphant, you and I seem to have the same engine, built in the same year, having the same oil capacity (9.4 lt). I wonder how you know how much oil one will lose when the dipstick breaks off

@Defatman2, with Triumphant's details above you may not need any further info, but I will scan the relevant pages of the manual anyway later this week.

[defatman 2]

Hi Triumphant and Hankonthewater, well what can one say in reply to that other than "Guys you are awesome". If I was paying for this service I couldn't have been treated any better, all I can say is thank you guys so much. This is an excellent and very helpful forum, I sincerely hope that I can help either you or someone else at some point in the future.
Armed with the information you've supplied I will pay a visit to my boat next weekend to check out those measurements and with my trusty electronic clinometer (a little over the top I know) I'll check out the installation angle. Very interesting that point about the dipstick tube leaking up to a pint an hour. I do have a small amount of oil in the bilge but it wouldn't amount to that volume, although I suppose it depends on the size of the leak at that point. On a different note, if I could be so bold to ask, do either of you know if it is possible to remove the cylinder head while the engine is in situ and if it is a major task if one is equipped with all the relevant technical information? I do have some experience of working on engines mainly motorcycles and cars none of which were diesel though.
Many thanks again for all your help.

[HankOnthewater]

I haven't had the need to take the head off, but looking at the manual it looks easy enough. I had the head of a 6.354 engine, not a problem. I worked on a 3.152 and a 110 Phaser engine, all easy. None were a problem. Spare parts are easy and relatively cheap to get. BTW, prior to that I just had petrol car and motorbike engine experience. I am not a mechanic.

Do you have a manual? There is one in the first link, post #13. Note, it is for road/industrial use, not a marinised version. The other links I have included, just for info.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...er-183510.html
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ger-76982.html
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ms-153271.html

Access to the engine and (lack of space) space around it, is often the stumbling block to work in-situ. I don't know how much room you need above the engine to enable you to take the head off.

[HankOnthewater]

Finally been able to scan some stuff. Afraid not much new info.
- page 1 is cover of "Perkins users [sic] handbook", printed September 1982 in USA, with some scribbles by previous owner. BTW, that user's handbook has NO info on oil capacity at all!
- page 2 taken from the book "Perkins marine engine installation", year of printing 1981
- page 3 and 4, taken from the Perkins series 4.236 workshop manual, printed January 1993

So, I have no more accurate information, than 9.4 lt oil capacity with oilfilter change. As I said before, it nearly takes 10 litres in my case and my engine is slanted to the stern by 5-7 degrees.

[defatman 2]

Hi Hankonthewater,
Many thanks for your last post and the links. My own copy of the Perkins 4236M (Marine engine) states that the sump capacity is 8.4ltrs so I'm going to check with Edina, the Perkins agents here in Ireland, as to what the correct oil volume is, for an engine with my engine number.

Since I spoke to you last, I checked out with them if the dipstick I have is the correct one for my engine and they confirmed that it is. The dipstick has it's own part number stamped on it. They recommended, that since the dipstick tube that was in my boat had been repaired that I should replace it, just to be sure. It was easy for them to say that, as a new one costs €60 . But to be fair to them, it was well worth it for the peace of mind alone and more importantly the fact that after I installed the new, correct dipstick tube, I had to remove 2+ltrs of oil from the sump before the dipstick read correct on the max mark. The engine now runs a lot freer and it sounds a lot less strained and also I do not appear to be leaking oil into the bilges anymore. (Thank God for that as I just hate washing out the bilges)

Apologies for not replying sooner but I forgot my password for this forum and being of senior years it took me several goes before I got to eventually change my password successfully. I will check with Edina as to the correct oil volume for my engine and when I do I'll come back and let you know what they say.
Regards,
Defatman 2

[Triumphant]

Originally Posted by defatman 2

Hi Hankonthewater,
Many thanks for your last post and the links. My own copy of the Perkins 4236M (Marine engine) states that the sump capacity is 8.4ltrs so I'm going to check with Edina, the Perkins agents here in Ireland, as to what the correct oil volume is, for an engine with my engine number.

Since I spoke to you last, I checked out with them if the dipstick I have is the correct one for my engine and they confirmed that it is. The dipstick has it's own part number stamped on it. They recommended, that since the dipstick tube that was in my boat had been repaired that I should replace it, just to be sure. It was easy for them to say that, as a new one costs €60 . But to be fair to them, it was well worth it for the peace of mind alone and more importantly the fact that after I installed the new, correct dipstick tube, I had to remove 2+ltrs of oil from the sump before the dipstick read correct on the max mark. The engine now runs a lot freer and it sounds a lot less strained and also I do not appear to be leaking oil into the bilges anymore. (Thank God for that as I just hate washing out the bilges)

Apologies for not replying sooner but I forgot my password for this forum and being of senior years it took me several goes before I got to eventually change my password successfully. I will check with Edina as to the correct oil volume for my engine and when I do I'll come back and let you know what they say.
Regards,
Defatman 2

Good to hear you have sorted your problems
Never thought to look for the part number on the dip stick!

Next time you are on the boat could you measure your dip stick tube and tell me the length so I can check my fabricated one is correct?

Thanks

John Q

[defatman 2]

Hi John,
You're in luck as I was only down on my boat last weekend for the sole purpose of measuring the tube length, just for record purposes.
Firstly let me explain the method that I used to measure the length of the tube. Due to the fact that the tube has a number of bends in it, poses a difficulty in measurement accuracy. To overcome this difficulty I decided to make use of the dipstick by placing the bottom of the tube (the end that goes into the sump) on a hard surface and inserting the dipstick into the top end of the tube until it bottoms out on the hard surface and then measuring the distance from the top of the tube to the bottom of the small cap at the handle end of the dipstick. By subtracting this measurement from the overall length of the dipstick, the length of the tube is gained. The overall length of the dipstick is measured from the tip, at the Min / Max end, to the bottom of the small cap at the handle end. Another important measurement to take is the distance from the bottom end of the tube to the oil sealing ring on the tube. This ring is what prevents the tube from falling into the sump but its main purpose is to seal the sump oil from escaping and also to keep the dipstick measurement constant. Now to the important information the measurements which are as follows:

Dipstick Part No. 31788387
Length from tip (sump end) to Min mark = 8mm
Length from tip to Max mark = 23mm
Length from tip to bottom end of small cap at handle end = 480mm

Dipstick Tube Part No. 35772437
Length from sump end to the sealing ring = 30mm
Overall length = 456mm

The total length of the dipstick that protrudes from the tube when the dipstick is fully inserted into it is = 33mm

PLEASE NOTE:
All the above measurements are relevant ONLY to the part no's quoted which are in turn ONLY relevant to the following Engine No:

LD 14420 U 690763 G.

Seemingly there are many variants of these engines which were manufactured for many different uses, in many locations in various countries, so it is imperative, according to the agents here in Ireland, that the relevant part numbers are correct and that they match the engine number. In relation to the oil volume the agents say that the sump volume is 7.9 litres approx. and the overall volume is 8.4 litres, again all these figures are for my engine number only.
None of the above measurements if different from yours mean that you have a difficulty, but it does mean that you will need to check that your relevant part numbers are correct for your engine number. As a by the way, my engine is installed with an inclination angle of 15 deg, sloping down towards the transom end. I would strongly advise that you check have the correct part numbers with your local Perkins agent, or indeed even with Perkins themselves.
Thank you for all your help.
Regards,
John Geraghty

[Triumphant]

Originally Posted by defatman 2

Hi John,

Seemingly there are many variants of these engines which were manufactured for many different uses, in many locations in various countries, so it is imperative, according to the agents here in Ireland, that the relevant part numbers are correct and that they match the engine number. In relation to the oil volume the agents say that the sump volume is 7.9 litres approx. and the overall volume is 8.4 litres, again all these figures are for my engine number only.
Thank you for all your help.
Regards,
John Geraghty

Thanks for the info

Having re checked my measurement and my parts manual, I can confirm that your agent/dealer is entirely right about the many variants of these engines.

Your engine is a 1980 model built in the UK, My engine no is LD 14420 U 868123 J, also built in the UK but is a 1982 model.

My dipstick is much shorter than yours (!!!), 285mm versus 480mm and it has a hand scribed number on the opposite side to the Max & Min markings of 5468, The part number in my parts manual is 31785468

My part manual number for the dip stick tube is 35772327 and is also shorter, 285mm versus 480mm.

My old dipstick tube had one bend in it to make the end of the tube vertical where you insert the dipstick. My dipstick tube broke at the base where it enters the nut that goes into the sump because someone had not bothered to refit the plate at the top which provides support to the top of the tube

First we tried welding the broken tube into the nut but this leaked so we welded a new straight stainless tube instead, so possibly I am slightly under reading the full mark but not by much. (The old girl has just done over 500miles/100 hours motoring from Belize to Mexico and back at 1,700RPM and the oil level has not moved)

Now onto my next project, a slight diesel leak on the injector pump where the throttle post goes into the top of the pump

Thanks
John Q

[Jasmynonblue]

Defatman2, just following these posts. I have a non genuine stick and tube. Can you supply the part numbers that you used. Does your sump have extra flanges at the bottom at the back. Not just a square shape.

[HankOnthewater]

@ jasmynonblue, welcome here.
Since my previous post I found another page in my manual that shows the dipstick arrangement and I think part numbers are also listed. I can go to the boat tomorrow and check it out.

[HankOnthewater]

I have attached 4 pages in a PDF file: the first 2 are from an old manual, with partnumbers, but it does not show sizes and my dipstick is different. The following 2 pages are from a different Perkins manual, they do not show part numbers, but the photos matches the setup I have.

Then I added some photos:
1. dipstick in situ, behind startermotor, tube where dipstick fits in, measuring 258 mm from hole in block (not to nut above it!) to the top
2. dipstick itself, I would say an aftermarket one. The top of the tube as in photo #2 slides approx. 14 mm inside in the white plastic on top of dipstick
3. closeup of the bottom of dipstick, difference between min and max is ~21 mm.

Regardless of dipstick fitted, the oil level in relation to engine block/sump should be all the same. Thus I provide that relationship as it is on my engine.
Both the measurements 1) length of dipstick minus length of tube, minus slide inside plastic and 2) the wear-marks on the dipstick itself show that the max oil level is approx. 5 mm below the top of the hole in block, min oil level would then be 21+5=26 mm below the opening.
Not sure if the above information helps, or helps confuse people.