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Old 10-09-2012, 05:06   #76
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

yeah, or I can sail to sweden. But overall, environmental regulations are getting tougher everywhere.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:36   #77
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

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Don't you remove the antifoul paint when you brush?
Yes, it is possible to remove paint during in-water hull cleaning activities. But regular, gentle in-water hull cleaning using Best Management Practices will actually extend the life of your anti fouling paint.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:12   #78
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

"Don't you remove the antifoul paint when you brush? "
Of course. With any ablative paint, any touching wears some of it off. Brushing wears off even more, but that's part of normal wear.

Perhaps someone will come up with a way to teflon coat hulls, so the buffet can simply be wiped off and used as a proper food source. (Yummy!)
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:17   #79
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

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Perhaps someone will come up with a way to teflon coat hulls, so the buffet can simply be wiped off and used as a proper food source. (Yummy!)
There have been several Teflon-based anti fouling products on the market for years. They all have really poor anti fouling properties, in my experience.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:25   #80
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

I don't mean "ground up teflon in the paint", I mean a teflon coating, licensed from DuPont, and bonded to the hull the same way it is bonded to a skillet.

The "teflon" products on the market have, AFAIK, all been unlicensed uses consisting of teflon ground up into a carrier, not pure teflon.

The problem with teflon is that it is normally bonded to a substrate by high temperature, and gelcoat and FRP hulls tend to be incompatible with the temperatures needed to bond teflon.

Given all the non-stick alternatives, newfnagled "ceramics", etc., someone eventually ought to be able to make a hull that's as good as a skillet, right?
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:33   #81
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

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The "teflon" products on the market have, AFAIK, all been unlicensed uses consisting of teflon ground up into a carrier, not pure teflon.
I seriously doubt that huge, multinational corporations like Akzo Nobel (parent company of Interlux Paints, makers of Baltoplate and VC line of Teflon paints) are using the product in their paints without permission. And if coating a hull with a pure Teflon non-stick surface were possible, it would have been done already, IMHO. But there certainly are other "foul release" hull coatings that work by means of being too slippery for fouling organisms to readily attach. However, these coatings tend to be very expensive, difficult to apply and easily damaged. My guess is that will never find anything more than limited success in the recreational boating market.
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Old 10-09-2012, 13:01   #82
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

They don't need permission to USE the teflon, it is the "application" that gets licensed. You can buy and sell Chevies or Fords all year long without a franchise from the manufacturer, Teflon is used the same way.

There have been many "snake oil" products in the automobile market, using teflon particles in engine oil additives. DuPont never licensed it for those uses or those companies, but they can still buy it, grind it up, and makes claims about what their product does. They don't need permission to do that. The "blessing" is entirely different from the purchase/sale.

Two totally separate issues.

As for coating an entire hull? Yes, it is possible, if you start with a METAL hull and a suitable "paint" baking booth. But why bother when paint is so cheap? (Yeah, I called it cheap. (G) )

Hey, today we assume a $5 skillet won't stick to the eggs. A hundred years ago? Like you say about teflon hulls, they knew that was impossible. Maybe the solution is to bond graphene sheeting to the hull, like gold gilding. That's another material that was "impossible" even ten years ago.
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Old 10-09-2012, 13:06   #83
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

Well, as you say, technologies are constantly changing and the anti fouling industry is being driven harder than ever by environmental regulations and concerns. So who knows what the future holds? But I do know that if it is being suggested on a common internet message board, the chemists in the labs of the paint manufacturing corporations have likely already thought of it and tried it, if it was at all plausible.
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Old 10-09-2012, 16:43   #84
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
They don't need permission to USE the teflon, it is the "application" that gets licensed. You can buy and sell Chevies or Fords all year long without a franchise from the manufacturer, Teflon is used the same way.

There have been many "snake oil" products in the automobile market, using teflon particles in engine oil additives. DuPont never licensed it for those uses or those companies, but they can still buy it, grind it up, and makes claims about what their product does. They don't need permission to do that. The "blessing" is entirely different from the purchase/sale.

Two totally separate issues.

As for coating an entire hull? Yes, it is possible, if you start with a METAL hull and a suitable "paint" baking booth. But why bother when paint is so cheap? (Yeah, I called it cheap. (G) )

Hey, today we assume a $5 skillet won't stick to the eggs. A hundred years ago? Like you say about teflon hulls, they knew that was impossible. Maybe the solution is to bond graphene sheeting to the hull, like gold gilding. That's another material that was "impossible" even ten years ago.
You got me curious. I think I am gonna hang a frying pan on my dock and see how it holds up.

Worst case I can just transfer the pan to the fire and have lunch...
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Old 10-09-2012, 17:29   #85
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

Azul's cautionary comments are good ones to remember. I picked up a pony tank and gauge from a friend, got a dive shop to sell me a reconditioned regulator and about 60 feet of hose for my own hooka setup. the whole thing cost about $300. Never took a dive lesson and do not hold any PADI certification, however my wife does.
I had the setup more just to check out the bottom and monitor how the bottom cleaning was going, check out zinc deterioration and through hull condition in San Diego Harbor when we were living aboard. We ended up staying in Two Harbors on Catalina over a long weekend and two powerboats managed to wrap the mooring lead line in their props and were told that a diver would not be available until the following day at $500 a visit.
We put the hooka set up into the skiff and rowed over... took 5 minutes to unwrap one and about 15 minutes to unwrap the second one. Picked up $300 in 'donations' which paid for the whole hooka set up. DON'T try this without going through a course!!
I do wish I had read about the dangers of shallow diving before trying that! Hats Off to CF for having great posts that are really valuable... cheers, Capt Phil
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:21   #86
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

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Do you not have tides in the US?

Pete
Well actually in some places not much. Tides can be as little as 1-2' in parts of FL and 8-10' just next door in GA.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:59   #87
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Re: Bottom Clean Breathing Device

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Do you not have tides in the US?

The other option in the UK is to dry out against a pile (pole) and give it a good scrub with the yard brush and some bleach.

Pete
Authorities in the USA are getting very sticky about kareening your vessel on US beaches or marinas... The problem lies with the scrapings, which they deem hazardous...

Down here in Panama it happens all the time with 18 foot tide ranges... it makes it easy!
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