Vendee Globe Starts Today, Facts, Video, Discussion

[Bleemus]

Those crazy French!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

Nothing against Armel but if AT wins it the butthurt whining and accusations of cheating/lying about broken foils will be so absurd. One thing I can't stand about French nationalism is whenever a foreign competitor expectedly gets good results or overcomes something, they go from admiration to suspicion in a heartbeat. Not everyone is a bloody Lance Armstrong.

That has nothing to do with the professional sailors or even sailors that always showed the greatest respect for anyone that make a great sportive performance and you have only to look at the reception Ellen Mac Arthur had when she arrived 2nd on a past vendee.

Regarding the general public I agree with you but don't think they are the only country with that kind of nationalist atitude. One of the funniest examples with the French was a petition signed by more than 100 000 French in only 24 hours for the repetition of the final of the last European football championship. The reason? They did not deserve to lose
https://www.minutenews.fr/sport/euro...le-178929.html

Nothing to do with sailors (I hope) and not for sure with professional ones. Michel Desjoyeaux on an interview said that he was betting on Alex Thompson for the win.
Vendée Globe. Desjoyeaux : "Un billet sur Thomson !" - Voile - LeTelegramme.fr

[SV DestinyAscen]

Of course nothing against Armel. He's a stoic. If he wasn't French they would hate him too.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

Alex picked up 2 miles in last four hours despite being in lighter winds. Armel should gain in the short term but Alex will be on his foil, amazingly, all the way to the finish if you believe the long range forecast. Should be a real nail biter!

You don't know who is on light winds or if one has a more favorable wind angle.

But I agree with you, it will be a close race and yes on the last 4 hours Alex won 1.5nm but they are still sailing on very irregular and weak winds, it is not a regular progression from the high to stronger winds. Lot's of patches with weaker winds.

Armel is now going 2.8k faster than Armel and the router still gives a small gain for Armel on the next 12 hours. We will see.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

...My general disagreement with the tone of the coverage is not much credit is given to the sailor of Hugo Boss for overcoming his foil issues and sticking with it to chase Armel down, while Armel is basically claimed to be better sailor and all that nonsense and somehow his boat is that much worse than a crippled Hugo boss.

Maybe a better knowledge of the two sailors and of what they accomplished as professional racers helps to understand why the French say that Armel is a better sailor. the diference is HUGE. Have a look at the list of accomplishments of both and compare it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Thomson_(sailor)
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armel_Le_Cl%C3%A9ac'h

But not always the better sailors won races, on sailboats on F1 ir in many sports. Sometimes someone that is normally not as good is in an a kind of state of grace and is unbeatable.

This is also a special race where sailing ability is not the only thing that matters but where endurance and the capacity to extend the personal limits over and over again is paramount.

Regarding sailing on an overall sense it seems clear that Armel is superior, not only for having mastered many different classes, including multihulls but also for having won in all of them. I believe that it is about this that you hear the French talking about Armel being a superior sailor.

[Bleemus]

Another couple of miles from Alex! The fox is being hunted!

[toddedger]

[quote name="toddedger" post=2298600]<b>I think Alex would be happy to get in the same weather on the same route and try to track him down with boat speed.</b> As good as Armel is he could easily find a parking lot and watch Alex fly right by. ...[/QUOTE]<br />
<br />
Not sure if I understand you. That is what Alex is doing for almost a week and it is not given results. They are on the same weather system, they get basically the same conditions with some hours of interval and Alex is not winning over Armel, that seems to me, is controlling Alex.<br />
<br />
Some days ago, when they entered the same weather system Alex closed to 50nm and Alex basically followed Armel trying to gain in speed. <br />
<br />
Armel went away when was out of the high and then they maintained about the same distance, between 200/300nm.<br />
<br />
Now Alex is still closing on Armel that is without wind and is at about 100nm but some more hours and Armel will be out of the high pressure zone and Alex will be inside and soon Armel will be 200nm away.<br />
<br />
Alex tried but by now he should have understood that he will not catch Armel that way, that he is resisting to his pressure in a very effective way. Off course he can continue to try and hope Armel breaks something on the boat or he will have to try a different routing on the Açores high.<br />
<br />
Then we will see if Armel will try to cover the move or if he will be absolutely confident that other routing, than not the one Alex is following, is better. Anyway Armel will have the choice about the routing and if Alex wants to try another one will only have the 2nd choice (that eventually can prove better).<br />
<br />
I would say that if Armel has a choice he will try to maintain Alex on the same course he is following. That's the way he can control him.<br />
<br />
Anyway great battle between those two and a great race for both.


IF ON THE SAME ROUTE, WITH THE SAME PRESSURE, AND ON STARBOARD TACK, ALEX MAY BE ABLE TO TRACK HIM DOWN WITH BOAT SPEED. IF THE TRUE WIND IS AFT OF BEAM I THINK ALEX HAS A SLIGHT SPEED ADVANTAGE WITH A NARROWER BOAT. THERE'S STILL 25,000 MILES TO GO, SO IT ISN'T OVER YET.

[meatservo]

2,500 maybe?


meatservo

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Polux

Maybe a better knowledge of the two sailors and of what they accomplished as professional racers helps to understand why the French say that Armel is a better sailor. the diference is HUGE. Have a look at the list of accomplishments of both and compare it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Thomson_(sailor)
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armel_Le_Cl%C3%A9ac'h

Yes the difference is huge. Thomson has won a round-the-world race, and Le Cléac'h has not.

They have largely different focuses as professional sailors. And Wikipedia entries can vary widely depending on who's contributing the content.

Not taking anything away from Le Cléac'h, who is clearly a very skilled and knowledgeable sailor at the top of his profession, but I think qualifying the difference between them as "HUGE" is a bit of an overstatement, qualitatively speaking.

The French regard ocean racing to be their sport. They are no different than any other nationality in that respect when it comes to preemicence in a sport. In fact I'd find it kind of weird if they were not crowing about Le Cléac'h and downplaying Thomson.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

Another couple of miles from Alex! The fox is being hunted!

But, instead of "fox" he is called "Jackal."
_________

This race is amazing.
The top sailors are amazing.
The wonderful and informative posts by POLUX are amazing too, and help me understand what is happening and why. Such excellent commentary helps one appreciate what is going on.

I happen to like "underdog" stories.
Armel may have more sailing accomplishments, but I think Alex has demonstrated a great thing called "spirit" and "elan" and a determination to do his best despite some serious (broken foil) obstacles. That he is as close as he is, is a testament to his own skill as a sailor. Bravo!

Even if Alex does not win the race by coming in first, I think he has won the admiration of a world of sailors. He sure has mine!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Yes the difference is huge. Thomson has won a round-the-world race, and Le Cléac'h has not.

They have largely different focuses as professional sailors. And Wikipedia entries can vary widely depending on who's contributing the content.

Not taking anything away from Le Cléac'h, who is clearly a very skilled and knowledgeable sailor at the top of his profession, but I think qualifying the difference between them as "HUGE" is a bit of an overstatement, qualitatively speaking.

Sometimes when somebody don't know what he is talking about it is better not to say anything or to do some research first

The entries have nothing with whom is making the content, they are factual in what regards results.

"Thomson's Clipper Race win in 1999 made him the youngest skipper ever to win a round-the-world yacht race."

The clipper race is an amateur race with boats that have a professional skipper to warrant safety and completely amateur inexperienced crews that change along the race.

Not any top professional sailor would accept or lose time being a skipper one of those boats. A job for 2th rate skippers and the mention of it on a sailing curriculum can only be a joke, unless one is really a 2th rate sailor and that is not the case with Alex, at least now.

The Clippers do the Sydney Hobart obtaining always ridiculous places taking in account the size of the boats and the sailing potential. The same happens on the ARC.

From the propaganda:

"The Clipper Race is one of the biggest challenges of the natural world and an endurance test like no other.

With no previous sailing experience necessary, it’s a record breaking 40,000 nautical mile race around the world on a 70-foot ocean racing yacht.
...
Divided into eight legs and 14 to 16 individual races, you can choose to complete the full circumnavigation or select individual legs. It is the only race in the world where the organisers supply a fleet of twelve identical racing yachts, each with a fully qualified skipper to safely guide the crew."
https://www.clipperroundtheworld.com...about-the-race

And some talk about the French to be partial or nationalists in what regards their sailors!!!

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Polux

This is also a special race where sailing ability is not the only thing that matters but where endurance and the capacity to extend the personal limits over and over again is paramount.

Well said! .... Thanks to your reports and guidance I now really appreciate the many building layers of challenges, each solo sailor has to overcome while sailing at breakneck speeds in hostile seas.

It is more a 'rite of passage' than a race.

I am really hooked on the incredible Vendee from now on and can understand and applaud France for their passionate support of their national heroes.

It is however a shame that many don't realize that this is mostly a competition with one's self and to me, all of them are winners!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Well said! .... Thanks to your reports and guidance I now really appreciate the many building layers of challenges, each solo sailor has to overcome while sailing at breakneck speeds in hostile seas.

It is more a 'rite of passage' than a race.

I am really hooked on the incredible Vendee from now on and can understand and applaud France for their passionate support of their national heroes.

It is however a shame that many don't realize that this is mostly a competition with one's self and to me, all of them are winners!

Thanks! There are two races here, one for the ones that are fighting to win and other for the ones that are in it for finishing it.

You have just to look at the huge diference between the first and the ones in the middle, not to say the last to understand that diference and that has not to do with boat but with the sailors. The last has a top boat and Ruyant had a boat as slow as the ones on the tail of the race. The main diference is on sailor's sailing potential. Some are top professional solo sailors others are good amateur racers trying to accomplish a dream.

I agree that finishing it is by itself a major accomplishment not at the reach of all. For doing that they have to be great sailors and to have a great endurance but for a guys like Armel or Alex that is not enough.

For Alex this is is 4th Vendee Globe, he retired in two and was 3th on the last.

For Armel this is is 3rd Vendee Globe and he finished the two first in 2nd. You can believe that he will be very pissed if he finishes the 3rd one in 2nd again

[SV DestinyAscen]

Wow. I don't know how one can be so dismissive towards someone who has finished the VG in third place despite having a bunch of problems, someone who has several single-handed records. Like I said before, nothing against Armel - but sure seems like someone feels that AT is undeserving.

Well enjoy the remainder of the race

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

...
Armel may have more sailing accomplishments, but I think Alex has demonstrated a great thing called "spirit" and "elan" and a determination to do his best despite some serious (broken foil) obstacles. That he is as close as he is, is a testament to his own skill as a sailor. Bravo!

Even if Alex does not win the race by coming in first, I think he has won the admiration of a world of sailors. He sure has mine!

I agree. Alex is a fighter and several times is excessive enthusiasm finished with a broken boat. For the first time I see him not making mistakes and keep focused while sailing at the pace of the best. I believe that winning or not this race it is a much better sailor now than it was before.

But regarding Armel we have to the admire the resilience that he had showed regarding remaining imperturbable face to bad luck: Never anybody in all vendees had such luck with the weather as Alex and never anybody had recovered so many miles in so little time, not even close.

He keeps sailing without making mistakes like if he was imune to the huge stress the relentless pursuit of Alex would have on almost any sailor.