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Old 29-03-2009, 12:04   #16
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Vanessa Palm Starr and Alex Rust, the two Americans who perpetrated these crimes, are the very epitome of the term "Ugly American," in my view. The term actually has a long and inglorious history:

Ugly American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That these two indulged their "uglier" sides is disappointing, to be sure, but that George chose to apply the term "Ugly Americans" to them is perfectly accurate. That another CF member chose to take such indignant offense is the mystery to me.

My only hesitation at the title of this thread is the use of "Ugly Americans" and "Cruising" together. While it cannot be denied that these young degenerates were, in fact, vacationing in the Bahamas aboard a vessel, they certainly are not "cruisers," as I understand the term. While they displayed their "ugliness" so prominently, putting the pictures of their crimes on Facebook, I have little faith that the episode represented a single, momentary, lack of judgment. I can easily imagine that they would be equally "ugly" in other circumstances that have nothing to do with cruising whatsoever.

At any rate, welcome back to the Forum, George. Aren't you glad you started posting again?

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Old 29-03-2009, 13:45   #17
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Thanks Tao, I actually caught that reference as I have heard it used a few times in my travels. I can definitely see how it would be completely misinterpreted by anyone that has not heard the explanation of its intended meaning. Ethnocentric epithets are not nice no matter what the reference, however it seems that every country has a term like the aforementioned in its arsenal of generalization.

The recent act of foolishness involving protected wildlife is just that, foolish. Does the fact that the second incident being perpetrated by Americans yet again really give anyone the right to point fingers at an entire country? I don't really think so. Maybe if it happened 30 times in a row (The lowest population required in statistics to make a hypotheses) then I'd hate to say it but, "Americans just seem to love to eat protected and exotic animals in foreign countries" wouldn't be a far stretch. Until that happens I think its safe to say that this is yet again another "Isolated incident" of stupidity.

I hope the punishment is severe to be honest for both sets of offenders.
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Old 29-03-2009, 14:00   #18
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the title did not lump all NA,s in together and the acts were ugly
the world is full of ugliness in one form of another
You can either except it or stand on a soapbox, literally and campaign against this and that
I see many ugly things here and in NZ and in most countrys I have been to
Mostly it boils down to ingnorance and the lack of a decent upbringing So when you are raised by an ignoramous, how can you know whats right and wrong?
Give you a simpler example yesterday before the F1 race here, they played the national athem Amongstthe crowd not one man took off his cap of hatThat is plain rude bad manners But they know no better During the victory ceremony on the podium, the Brit anthem was played and the 3 winners ---hats off!! They were brought up correctly
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Old 29-03-2009, 14:25   #19
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the title did not lump all NA,s in together and the acts were ugly
the world is full of ugliness in one form of another
You can either except it or stand on a soapbox, literally and campaign against this and that
I see many ugly things here and in NZ and in most countrys I have been to
Mostly it boils down to ingnorance and the lack of a decent upbringing So when you are raised by an ignoramous, how can you know whats right and wrong?
Give you a simpler example yesterday before the F1 race here, they played the national athem Amongstthe crowd not one man took off his cap of hatThat is plain rude bad manners But they know no better During the victory ceremony on the podium, the Brit anthem was played and the 3 winners ---hats off!! They were brought up correctly
Good post. so true so true...It mostly is learned or perhaps unlearned behavior...knowing what the next right thing is. Still, I find the term "Ugly American" too loosely used. Idiots or Morons might be a better fitting as it knows no borders. Although I am a naturalized citizen of the U.S., I support it and try to create positive change where ever I go.
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Old 29-03-2009, 14:40   #20
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I have been away from the Internet for quite a while, so if this has been reported, please forgive me.

I couldn't believe when another cruiser told me a couple on another boat had killed and eaten protected iguanas in the Bahamas and posted it on their Facebook page. In the photos, they had lined up in front of them immature conch, also against the law to take.

Check the March 19 edition of the Nassau Tribune for a story about them and another boat who killed a protected duck on a private island.

Nassau Daily Tribune - Access denied

Most cruisers are pretty environmentally conscious and recognize we are guests in other countries. I am appalled that I might be lumped in with these idiots.

The couple that took and at the iguanas was convicted and pleaded ignorance but in later conversations showed absolutely no remorse. I agree with the person quoted in the article. Their boats should be confiscated. They give us all a bad name.

IDIOTS!!!

Sunspot Baby
It is a shame that this has happened, but the worst is that it will keep on happening until a forum like this gets together with other, and overpower the boat manufacture industry in the idea of not allowing the senate to pass a law to regulate boat owner in their boating education or at least to impose a license captain to operate their boats…
The level of education or family values of an individual is never considered at the moment of a boat sale… so as long as this keeps on going, we’ll have to live with the consequences…
Good luck to all of us out there, especially in a foreign Country…
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Old 29-03-2009, 14:42   #21
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Tao:

We are in the Bahamas and stopped at a marina with Wi-Fi. Haven't been in a marina or had a good enough connection to really spend time in the forum.

Probably won't be posting much until we get back in the states late may or early June. Thanks for your comments.

George
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Old 29-03-2009, 14:54   #22
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It is a shame that this has happened, but the worst is that it will keep on happening until a forum like this gets together with other, and overpower the boat manufacture industry in the idea of not allowing the senate to pass a law to regulate boat owner in their boating education or at least to impose a license captain to operate their boats…
The level of education or family values of an individual is never considered at the moment of a boat sale… so as long as this keeps on going, we’ll have to live with the consequences…
Good luck to all of us out there, especially in a foreign Country…
I'm sorry...but I'm trying to fathom what this has to do with what we're talking about. This was about some un-feeling, self-centered, egotistical idiots (Ugly World Citizens) crapping all over cultural laws.
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Old 29-03-2009, 14:59   #23
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I find it deeply offensive and insulting to me as a human being that so many folks on this board seem to get deeply offended by just about anything and possibly everything.

I also find it insulting that the word "American" is used in any context that could be construed as negative in any fashion, but I also find it offensive when "American" is used in the same paragraph with "family values" and to throw gasoline on the fire..... and to ensure that this thread is rapidly shut down.... I will toss the word "GUN" into the mix.

There. I said it. GUN. I said it again. Now we can all be offended, ashamed, angry, obtuse, perplexed and outraged together.

You Mileage May Vary.



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Old 29-03-2009, 15:01   #24
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second the post above
But you want more laws? goodness we are swamped with the law, do this do that, can't do this that There is almost no FREEDOM left
Besides no legislation can take the cruelty and lack of respect for the planet, out of people
And with that, I,m out) be happy people
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Old 29-03-2009, 15:20   #25
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Quote:
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the title did not lump all NA,s in together and the acts were ugly
the world is full of ugliness in one form of another
You can either except it or stand on a soapbox, literally and campaign against this and that
I see many ugly things here and in NZ and in most countrys I have been to
Mostly it boils down to ingnorance and the lack of a decent upbringing So when you are raised by an ignoramous, how can you know whats right and wrong?
Give you a simpler example yesterday before the F1 race here, they played the national athem Amongstthe crowd not one man took off his cap of hatThat is plain rude bad manners But they know no better During the victory ceremony on the podium, the Brit anthem was played and the 3 winners ---hats off!! They were brought up correctly
Not sure what nationality you are but you are certainly not enjoying your stay down under as all comments are negative, so I suggest you hoist the sails and go somewhere you will be happier
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Old 29-03-2009, 15:32   #26
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Quote:
I'm sorry...but I'm trying to fathom what this has to do with what we're talking about.
I think the same way you do. For those that want to relive CF history this was the exact same problem we had the last time this thread started. Rather than create a longer version of the same the tedium I think it's time we all found a new topic that has a lot more to offer both new and old members.

To emphasize a point I know a great many members would like any news on the rest of this story. This discussion has become not much about boating or boating events. Sorry George. I know this is not the discussion you intended with your post.

Thread close due to lack of topic.
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