Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I was once told not to use the EPIRB if you lose someone overboard. It should only be used if the vessel is in danger of sinking. Thoughts?

IMO the EPIRB is for when all hell breaks loose. There are small personal locators availible for the crew that might be a better option instead of activating the EPIRB for a man over board situation. But, I was thinking that if you carry an EPIRB and have a reason to activate it and assuming you are not in a life raft or need to abandon the boat. It might be best to leave it with the boat when rescued that way the authorities could track the abandoned boat and/or it might be able to be salvaged at some point.

[hpeer]

If my Wife, son or daughter goes overboard the EPIRB goes off.

Period.

[DeepFrz]

AND ... regarding "risking their lives" .... the boat wasn't sinking just somewhat awash below ...

Can you even imagine the mess with gals. of water sloshing around inside a boat in heavy seas with no sails or rig up to steady the boat? Unless the boat was properly prepared to go off shore there would be sole hatches floating around in that soup trying to break or bruise/cut legs. All clothes and bedding would be soaked. People would be scared, cold, hungry and injured (even minor injuries can be painful in that situation). Maybe a flashlight that works, maybe not. Every step would be an adventure, until the water was pumped out. Everything, from what I've read, will be slippery and stink of diesel fuel so dangerous even after the water is pumped.

I sure hope the two survivors come online and fill in what I have missed.

[Seahunter]

Wow, how the imagination prevails. Diesel, what the lid came off? I don't think the boat was torpedoed. Here's a link to the communications between the USCG and the SV Eva. AUDIO AVAILABLE: Coast Guard aircrews rescue two 120 miles off Nantucket
As for EPIRBS and PEPIRBs; EPIRBS, don't go off if someone falls in the water. EPIRBs are attached to the boat and float to the surface after the boat has sunk. They can be manually tossed, but not recommended. PEPIRBs are personal locators based on EPIRB technology, but have limited signal strength and battery time. Either way these devices are registered along with your MMSI # and your ships radio if you have one and needs to be registered with the FCC or NOAA in order for them to be of any value. Here is the USCG page: Emergency Position Indicating Radiobeacon (EPIRB) Here is the FCC page: http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Rele...A-11-970A1.pdf

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

PEPIRBs are personal locators based on EPIRB technology, but have limited signal strength and battery time.

PEPIRBS have the same signal strength, but their battery is designed to last only for 24 hours not 48.
With a GPS PEPIRB it really only needs 24 hours to get the Lat&Long into the right hands.

[Seahunter]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

PEPIRBS have the same signal strength, but their battery is designed to last only for 24 hours not 48.
With a GPS PEPIRB it really only needs 24 hours to get the Lat&Long into the right hands.

Closer to operational standards; All 121.5 MHz PEPIRBs, often referred to as Category B (or “Mini B's) are manual activation units. Although these units do work with the low-earth orbiting satellite system, they do not work as well as 406 MHz beacons (which operate automatically), and they can not be detected by the geostationary satellites that provide instantaneous alerting for 85% of the globe. Furthermore, 121.5 MHz beacons are a large source of wasted effort by SAR forces. Most 406 MHz false alerts can be resolved easily with a phone call. In contrast, every 121.5 MHz false alert must be tracked to the source using direction finding equipment. So effectively, they are not the same.
That said one can purchase a 121.5 MHz homing device that will pick up the transmission of a crew member who has fallen OB and is wearing a PEPIRB.

[Paul Elliott]

As of 2009 the SARSATs are no longer responding to the 121.5 MHz PEPIRBs, although this frequency is still used for local direction-finding (and I believe for aircraft emergency transmitters).

The PLB (Personal Locator Beacon) being sold now puts out the same signals as the EPIRB: a 406 MHz beacon that is received by the satellites, and a 121.5 MHz beacon used for homing. PLBs are available with the same GPS technology as the GPS-equipped EPIRBS.

VALIS has one of those 121.5 MHz beacon receivers (from ACR -- I see they have discontinued this product, I wonder why?).

[Don1500]

Someone falls off my boat and I lose sight of them, the EPIRB goes in the water, along with anything that can float and support them. The EPIRB will drift with the current along with the MOB and at least give a much smaller area to search. Spotting the MOB from an aircraft is very much hit and miss, but a smaller search area inproves the odds.
And if I spot the MOB before help arrives, I can always call in and cancel the alert. If I get fined, so what, the MOB would be safe.

Sorry for the thread drift, the current was going that way.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Seahunter

Closer to operational standards; All 121.5 MHz PEPIRBs, .

121.5 MHz is now illegal.

I'm talking about the 406 PLB.




Mark

[Seahunter]

Yes, while true PLB like the ASR's have 406 capabilities, not all PLBs in existence are so equipped. You need to check, either way they are not the same even with 406 capabilities. EPIRBS transmit with 5watts, PLBs .1 watt.

[Joli]

Evans, it was a Hunter. Porbably not properly prepped or provisioned to go off shore. The guys sailing it said screw it, it ain't my piece of junk, let's go home. No effort was made to jury rig a spar, no effort was made to pump the water by hand and no effort was made to make the boat tight. Suprised?

Originally Posted by estarzinger

I am not sure if you will run out of stowage space or money first.

Let's think about what might have been useful in this particular situation.

First, a crash/trash pump would allowed them to pump the boat dry and keep it dry even with some significant leaks.

Second, hydraulic cable cutters to cut the rig lose.

Third, some sheets of marine plywood (or better fiberglass) and waterproof cloth with a battery drill and bits and large assortment of sheet metal screws and bolts and epoxy and caulking - to fix the broken hatches and deadlights.

Fourth, a honda generator and a securely stowed jug of gas and a securely stowed smallish back-up battery charger, to provide power until the main circuit breakers and battery bank are dried out. And a bunch of wd40 and dry towels and a heat gun to dry the main breakers and batteries and get the electrical system working again. And spare wire and connectors and crimp tools to by-pass any dead bits you can't bring back to life.

Fifth, Necessary tools and bits to get the engine back working. Probably it will be just fine once you get power back to the starter but . . . You might have to pump water out of the diesel tanks - so small pump, tank fitting and hose. You might have to bleed the engine - so appropriate wrenches. You might have to disassemble and clear/dry and reassemble the starter - appropriate wrenches and cleaner (there is also a very nice aftermarket 'spring starter' that will crank up to a 100hp diesel). It might have moved on its mounts, so appropriate wrenches to do a very rough alignment.

Sixth, spare autopilot(s) and spare gps(s) and spare chart(s) of likely back-up/emergency landfalls.

Seventh, medical kit - it sounds like the crew was in fact fine, just a bit scared and banged up. But you might need splints to deal with broken bones, and bandaging and butterfly's and antiseptic cleaner for head (and other) gashes, and serious pain killer.

Eight, possibility to Jerry rig - some long lengths of 10mm spectra single braid for rigging, hack saw and many spare blades and an electric grinder to cut and shape and smooth the spars, banding tool to splint pieces, drill and padeyes and taps and machine screws and eye bolts for the rigging attachments, sewing supplies (needles and thread and sail palm) and grommet kit and spare spectra sail cloth and webbing, and good scissors and knife and hot knife to cut and reinforce reinforce Jerry sails.

Ninth, either a drogue or a para-anchor to lie to while fixing the boat (or waiting for rescue). Much more stable than lying beam on. And they might have used this before they got into trouble and avoided the whole situation.

Tenth, then I think I get to the sat phone with speed dial to an MD, the RCC where your epirb is registered, your family, and a friendly engine repair mechanic and an electrician.

None of these jobs is particularly difficult. The Jerry rigging probably requires the most seamanship but was probably not necessary because they were within motoring range of shore.

So, that's the list (just off the top of my head) of 'safety' gear that would have been useful in this particular situation. Of course there is much additional gear that could be useful in other quite different 'safety' emergencies.

[svtadpole]

My second post in this thread ....

I stand by my original post & add :

"very experienced & capable sailors" ? ..... pfffft

I also think a big round of applause should go to the USCG teams who risk their own lives on a regular basis pulling so-called capable sailors out of trouble ...

AND FINALLY ..... the boat was not sinking .... it is probably still afloat out there

[Seahunter]

Originally Posted by Joli

Evans, it was a Hunter. Porbably not properly prepped or provisioned to go off shore. The guys sailing it said screw it, it ain't my piece of junk, let's go home. No effort was made to jury rig a spar, no effort was made to pump the water by hand and no effort was made to make the boat tight. Suprised?

Close, it was a Beneteau, probably a 42S, the pics aren't too good, but you can basically see the situation. In mast furling, light rigging one can surmise the rest. Shots were taken by the crew and posted.

The happy crew shot before they departed
Attachment 27965

Remains of the mast (note foresail drifting off bow)
Attachment 27966

A little wet, but fairly clean inside
Attachment 27967

[YADO]

I found this comment posted about one of the sailors at:
Coast Guard Rescues 2 Men Off Nantucket Coast « CBS Boston

"This is Gunther from SY ULTIMA. Manfred is a friend of mine and I know, he is a very experienced sailor. He has crossed the North Atlantic last year with me in my SY ULTIMA and we also had bad weather, but never a problem, to handle it. So I don`t know, what happened really? But I know., Manfred is expierenced and has been sailing before a yacht single handed from Trinidad to Australia. There must have been problems with the boat?"

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

121.5 MHz is now illegal.

I'm talking about the 406 PLB.




Mark

G'Day Mark,

I've seen the ads in Sydney Afloat saying that use of a 121.5 MHz epirb is now banned, and wondered about it... even wrote a letter to them decrying this attitude and quoted our own psneel (sp?) as saying that one should use everything at hand to aid in SAR including the 121.

As far as I can see, this ruling is unique to Australia (have not done extensive search on this, tho'), and as it is quite OK to use any means of summoning aid in an emergency I doubt if the rule is enforceable. I know that I would not hesitate to use a 121 in an emergency situation.

I think we all recognize the superiority of the 406 (w/ or w/out GPS), but to just discard working 121's seems silly to me.

This ruling is much like Qld saying that it is an offence to have out of date flares on board, whilst the USCG has recommended keeping them as a supplement to your in-date flares. Go figger...

It's an odd world we live in.

Cheers,