It has started - France announces stricter border controls

[Polux]

Originally Posted by alan2

Some might, looking on the situation in Europe, observe the following. They wanted their Muslims, now they have them. ...

What do you want to say with that? Europe does not want Muslims any more than want Chinese, Americans or Jews. There is a humanitarian crisis with many thousands of refugees, that happen to be Muslims and Europe is doing what it can to help.

Do you think that Europe should just force them back to the sea?

Do you think these are middle east and African refugees trying to escape to europe?
No, they are European refugees trying to escape to North Africa some decades ago....and they found refuge there.

[stillbuilding]

Racism is not confined to the "western world" i would suggest. Asia, at least, shares those issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forums lily hhrn

[alan2]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

I live in a predominantly muslim neighborhood (and Rotterdams mayor is from Marocco originally, and a muslim), no real problems here. Mostly, we all get along just fine. Your post is generalizing a LOT of people, Alan2, and you're making some assumptions that, in my experience, only apply to a minority.

Racism is obviously an issue (not just here but pretty much in the Western world), especially these days since scared people don't think rationally and become afraid of muslims in general - and then it can become a self fulfilling prophecy.

But that's a whole nother discussion, and not one for these forums I think

The subject is border control, and so far most people haven't noticed any real changes.

Lizzy Belle:
Racism is certainly an issue, one that works both ways, I might add. When I, many years ago, worked in The Netherlands, Den Hague and Rotterdam, there were no problems that I can recall, though my memory might not be correct. In any event, my wife and I enjoyed our stay in Holland, longer in Den Hague than in Rotterdam.

Otherwise, on religion, I don't care if the other person worships a rock, their choice. All that I require is that I receive the same consideration as I offer, and to be left in peace, with my lack of religion. Sad to note, there are many who do not agree with me on this.

In any case, as you note, this site is not really the proper place in which to discuss religion or the lack thereof.

Best.

Alan

[alan2]

Polux:

As I recall, Jews had lived in various European nations for many years, fighting in it's wars, serving in governments, teaching in universities as well as being plain citizens, nothing special about them other that the fact of their religion. They still received "special treatment" shall we say.

That having been said, look at history, Sikes or Sykes-Picot, which carved up the Middle East post World War 1, for instance. Otherwise, history tells us that Europe fought the Muslims before, stopping them at Vienna as I recall. Europe might have to do it again, who can say, not I to be sure. In any case, there are Muslim nations in the Middle-East that are closer to Syria than Europe is. Why one wonders, can't any of these nations offer succor to their coreligionists? That seems a reasonable question. I believe there has been some movement in that direction, but it seems not enough.

Otherwise, as another poster pointed out, this site seems not the place to argue politics, religion or the lack thereof.

Best.
alan2

[Polux]

Originally Posted by alan2

Polux:

As I recall, Jews had lived in various European nations for many years, fighting in it's wars, serving in governments, teaching in universities as well as being plain citizens, nothing special about them other that the fact of their religion. They still received "special treatment" shall we say.

That having been said, look at history, Sikes or Sykes-Picot, which carved up the Middle East post World War 1, for instance. Otherwise, history tells us that Europe fought the Muslims before, stopping them at Vienna as I recall. Europe might have to do it again, who can say, not I to be sure. In any case, there are Muslim nations in the Middle-East that are closer to Syria than Europe is. Why one wonders, can't any of these nations offer succor to their coreligionists? That seems a reasonable question. I believe there has been some movement in that direction, but it seems not enough.

Otherwise, as another poster pointed out, this site seems not the place to argue politics, religion or the lack thereof.

Best.
alan2

So why to you argue politics here and talk about religious wars as if the in its huge majority Muslims were not pacific people? They come to Europe because due to its richness Europe is more able to offer them refugee than other poorer Muslim countries and because for them it does not matter if Europe is catholic or Muslim.

You talk like if on today's world being Muslim, Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, Jew or Atheist mattered in what regards social or political issues. It matters only to some very few fundamentalists (and they are not only Muslims) and it is from those that the world needs to get rid off.

[Pelagic]

Oh Yes...the roar of those pious Muslim communities condemning and getting rid of their murderous compatriots who wage war on civilians of other faiths..... is deafening!

[Travis McGee]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

Racism is obviously an issue (not just here but pretty much in the Western world), especially these days since scared people don't think rationally and become afraid of muslims in general - and then it can become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Which "race" is Islam? I wasn't aware that Islam was a race. From Boko Haram kidnappers and beheaders in Nigeria to Abu Sayaf kidnappers and beheaders in the Philippines, I don't think "race" is the issue. I think it's the radical core of a belief system defined by a book that is the issue.

Why did you make it an issue of race? Please, what "race" is Islam?

[bil56]

Now,we French suffer more than 30 years of laxity of our political leaders, especially in the last 15 years of liberal Europe.
it was a great idea of freedom that opening of borders between European countries but which served primarily to the transit of goods has unfortunately also largely benefited to the terrorists ...
the wars waged by the West in these countries of the Middle East to bring down dictators (largely supported and / or funded) bring us every day thousands of refugees.
...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Oh Yes...the roar of those pious Muslim communities condemning and getting rid of their murderous compatriots who wage war on civilians of other faiths..... is deafening!

Maybe you are too far away to hear, maybe American medias did not have covered that, but yes, the leaders of European Muslim communities were among the first to condom those atrocities explaining that had nothing to do with being a Muslim and that they were completely against Islamism preaching.

Originally Posted by Travis McGee

.. I think it's the radical core of a belief system defined by a book that is the issue. ...

That has nothing to do with Quran, their sacred book that does not preach more hate towards non believers than the Bible. Christians, Jews and Muslims share many common believes on the core of their religions and even common traditions and that's why they are called the religions of the book.

More than one in each five of earth inhabitants is a Muslim. It makes not any sense to blame on Muslim religion, or the core preaching of his sacred book, the acts of fundamentalists, a tiny minority among Muslims. There are also fundamentalists among other religions and fundamentalists among non religious people. Some of the worst atrocities of the XX century have nothing to do with religious fundamentalists, but with atheists fundamentalists.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Polux

Maybe you are too far away to hear, maybe American medias did not have covered that, but yes, the leaders of European Muslim communities were among the first to condom those atrocities explaining that had nothing to do with being a Muslim and that they were completely against Islamism preaching.



That has nothing to do with Quran, their sacred book that does not preach more hate towards non believers than the Bible. Christians, Jews and Muslims share many common believes on the core of their religions and even common traditions and that's why they are called the religions of the book.

More than one in each five of earth inhabitants is a Muslim. It makes not any sense to blame on Muslim religion, or the core preaching of his sacred book, the acts of fundamentalists, a tiny minority among Muslims. There are also fundamentalists among other religions and fundamentalists among non religious people. Some of the worst atrocities of the XX century have nothing to do with religious fundamentalists, but with atheists fundamentalists.

Hmm , so because all movements , religions,( atheism is religion ) have extremists ( fundamental it’s) atrocities such as beheadings is ok ?
I don’t hear you denouncing these atrocities .

[slug]

Originally Posted by Polux

What do you want to say with that? Europe does not want Muslims any more than want Chinese, Americans or Jews. There is a humanitarian crisis with many thousands of refugees, that happen to be Muslims and Europe is doing what it can to help.

Do you think that Europe should just force them back to the sea?

Do you think these are middle east and African refugees trying to escape to europe?
No, they are European refugees trying to escape to North Africa some decades ago....and they found refuge there.

Albanians , port in Italy

I think Brindisi

[weavis]

You did notice the thread was from 2015?