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Old 31-07-2013, 13:46   #31
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Re: Dust Off Your Sextants! GPS Hacked!

"The point is to exhibit seamanship...
...And that statement boys and girls is what pilotage is all about. The rest is details."

Yargh! No. Actually, piloting and seamanship would be very different things. Otherwise a ship would transfer the seaman off when they took pilots on. And vice versa. (G)
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Old 31-07-2013, 15:07   #32
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Re: Dust Off Your Sextants! GPS Hacked!

Pilotage is the use of fixed visual references on the ground or sea by means of sight or radar to guide oneself to a destination, sometimes with the help of a map or nautical chart. People use pilotage for activities such as guiding vessels and aircraft, hiking and scuba diving. Pilotage techniques apply when close enough to land or other navigational reference points. In these circumstances there is often not enough time for more elaborate navigational techniques that are used out of sight of both navigational aids and hazards. In these circumstances, it is usually not necessary to know exactly where you are, but that one is in a safe position, or at least on a safe line and will remain so for a period of time, and to know when the next change will be required. (From wiki definitions.)

This is the definition I was using. (Or were you making fun or me and my dramatic flare?)
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Old 31-07-2013, 16:16   #33
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Re: Dust Off Your Sextants! GPS Hacked!

No, just saying there's a difference. Piloting or pilotage is performed in coastal waters using landmarks. Seamanship is a much larger area (fellow named Chapman wrote a book on it, didn't he?) of knowledge and refers to handling a ship at sea, where "piloting" is generally impossible.
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Old 31-07-2013, 16:31   #34
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Re: Dust Off Your Sextants! GPS Hacked!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
No, just saying there's a difference. Piloting or pilotage is performed in coastal waters using landmarks. Seamanship is a much larger area (fellow named Chapman wrote a book on it, didn't he?) of knowledge and refers to handling a ship at sea, where "piloting" is generally impossible.
Seamanship is the safe and effective operation of a vessel; there is no restriction to distance and includes navigation (and piloting).

Seamanship - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Quote:
the art or skill of handling, working, and navigating a ship
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Old 31-07-2013, 17:10   #35
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Why would a single case of GPS hacking ( and we don't have any real details) make yiu dust of your sextant anyway


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Old 31-07-2013, 17:22   #36
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Re: Dust Off Your Sextants! GPS Hacked!

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Why would a single case of GPS hacking ( and we don't have any real details) make yiu dust of your sextant anyway


Dave
The sky is falling
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Old 31-07-2013, 17:27   #37
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Re: Dust Off Your Sextants! GPS Hacked!

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You can certainly do those things. However, if you refer to the quote in my post, you can see that I was asking in reply to a poster talking about disengaging the auto pilot from outside sources of information. A compass based one would be even easier to mess with, use a magnet!

The other forms of steering you mention are exactly what I think you'd have to use if you decided to run your autopilot without external sources of information.
Nothing wrong with those, but then I don't think it qualifies as using the autopilot at all
Spoofing the GPS and thereby the autopilot on a vessel can be done from anywhere within sight of that vessel.

Spoofing the autopilot's compass with a magnet would require being aboard the vessel in question to do so, achieving the spoof would require considerably more risk and probably would result in a short-lived deception. So while the magnet might be easier and cheaper technically, it would involve a lot more effort and risk in executing and bring relatively little result for that effort.
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Old 31-07-2013, 17:30   #38
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The sky is falling
Ah of course , along with the collapse of society , grab the Rocna and the Mossberg then.

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Old 31-07-2013, 17:36   #39
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Anyway we have more serious problems


"It's not a problem confined to shipping.
In 2011, Iran claimed it had hacked the GPS navigational controls of an advanced US reconnaissance drone. In a major embarrassment to the US military, the RQ170 Sentinel drone was duped into thinking it was landing at its home USAF airfield when its communications system was jammed and its autopilot zeroed in on false GPS coordinates.
"

Good god , my yacht could end in Tehran , where's Rumsfeld when you need him ,

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Old 31-07-2013, 17:41   #40
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Re: Dust Off Your Sextants! GPS Hacked!

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Next you guys will be insisting that a lodestone floating on a piece of wood is superior to a modern compensated compass.
If you want to argue that way, why are you on a boat? You should just visit wherever you want by calling up the Google StreetView for that location. Save you the expense of buying and maintaining the boat and the hassle of actually getting there. Just as good, ya sure ya betcha.
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Old 31-07-2013, 17:45   #41
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If you want to argue that way, why are you on a boat? You should just visit wherever you want by calling up the Google StreetView for that location. Save you the expense of buying and maintaining the boat and the hassle of actually getting there. Just as good, ya sure ya betcha.
Why , did all good boating stop,in 1650

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Old 31-07-2013, 17:52   #42
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Re: Dust Off Your Sextants! GPS Hacked!

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Why , did all good boating stop,in 1650

Dave
Is that when it stopped? I just know it was before I was here, cause those gismos have been following me around my entire life. I wish they would go away.


1650? is that when pilotage became a subset of seamanship? Cause I always thought greeting the natives in canoes was more fun than endlessly scanning the horizon for land, and that is pilotage with a capital P. (Not to be confused with pillage)
Just causing trouble....
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Old 31-07-2013, 17:55   #43
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Re: Dust Off Your Sextants! GPS Hacked!

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Why , did all good boating stop,in 1650

Dave
Dave:
Sarcasm. Learn to recognize it.

SVAlchemy indicated that he did not completely trust GPS and regularly took steps to check it's results and occasionally completely resorted to other methods when he found them more convenient.

CaptBill sarcastically implied that SVAlchemy was a Luddite who would replace his compass with a lodestone floating in a water dish.

I sarcastically indicated that since he was so all fired into high technology he should forego the boating and just 'travel' using the latest technology.

Both Bill and my comments were arguments taken to their absurd extreme, just in opposite directions. My intention was humor. I assume CaptBill's was too unless he was serious that SVAlchemy should completely and unreservedly put his/her faith in GPS.
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Old 31-07-2013, 18:07   #44
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Dave:
Sarcasm. Learn to recognize it.

SVAlchemy indicated that he did not completely trust GPS and regularly took steps to check it's results and occasionally completely resorted to other methods when he found them more convenient.

CaptBill sarcastically implied that SVAlchemy was a Luddite who would replace his compass with a lodestone floating in a water dish.

I sarcastically indicated that since he was so all fired into high technology he should forego the boating and just 'travel' using the latest technology.

Both Bill and my comments were arguments taken to their absurd extreme, just in opposite directions. My intention was humor. I assume CaptBill's was too unless he was serious that SVAlchemy should completely and unreservedly put his/her faith in GPS.
I thought my quip was very sarcastic ,

Dave
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Old 31-07-2013, 18:37   #45
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Re: Dust Off Your Sextants! GPS Hacked!

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I thought my quip was very sarcastic ,

Dave
Now that you point it out I can kind of see it. Although I would not use the adjective 'very'.
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