Alpha 42 "Be Good Too" rescue 300 miles off Cape Henry Merged

[SimonV]

Oops wrong thread.
Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Andrew Troup]

Well, it's academic, Ann, for US flagged vessels.

In February 2007, the U.S. First Circuit Court of Appeals in Boston granted the U.S. Coast Guard the authority to force a master to abandon ship if, in the judgment of the Coast Guardsmen on scene, the vessel is in imminent peril.

In the case which established this precedent, the master of a 144' fishing vessel had radioed the USCG to see if they would supply him some pumps. Some of the crew requested to be transferred to the USCG vessels when they arrived with the pump.

The vessel's captain at no time issued a Mayday, as he and other key crew members intended to stay with the boat and execute an apparently workable plan to control the ingress of water. (Involving closing off watertight doors confining the flooding to two compartments at the stern, having now been able to confirm that the damage was confined to those compartments)

The USCG refused to discuss this and ordered the remaining crew to abandon. The vessel's captain testified in court that he was told "if he did not cooperate, the Coast Guard would "subdue [him] physically" in order to take him off"

Consequently the vessel sank in a matter of hours, and the vessel's owner (who had been denied the opportunity to get salvage tugs to possibly save the vessel) sued the Coast Guard, alleging, in part, that the Coast Guard had acted outside its authority by forcing the evacuation.

The U.S. Department of Justice, which represented the Coast Guard, argued that Congress has granted the Coast Guard complete discretion in how it conducts its search-and-rescue operations. A district court judge agreed. The boat's owner appealed.

With one quite strongly worded dissenting opinion, that appeal was denied 2 to 1.

So that's where things stand, presumably unless Congress decides to clip the USCG's powers. Which I, for one, cannot see them having any enthusiasm for.

[JPA Cate]

Andrew:

Sacre bleu!

And understood.

Thanks.

Ann

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

For sure! It does look a bit hen-house, even to me! And I did note that the reinforcement on the outboard side looked a bit off, but I don't have any standards to judge by. One does hope that they used MIL spec cinder blocks...

Thanks for the comments.

Jim

Jim... How about an ASTM standard for concrete block???
(attached and boooooring!)

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Andrew:

Sacre bleu!

And understood.

Thanks.

Ann

Ann,

Reading from the actual transcript of the appeal, the phrase :

"Sucks Donkey"

Appears repeatedly....

[AussieGeoff]

I don't know if the US has some oddball sidestep of this, but to the best of my knowledge a Mayday call is, by definition, a signal stating that 'the vessel and personnel are in grave and imminent danger and require immediate assistance.'

Period.

Nothing about dropping responsibilities as master, in fact as I understand it, the onus is on the master to ensure the safety of all aboard and that doesn't change just because he/she sent a Mayday, in fact, if anything, that means he/she is going to be very busy, because make no mistake, after the dust settles and it's time for the inevitable investigation, if someone doesn't come home, the master will need to demonstrate he/she did everything humanly possible to ensure that person's safety or they will be found culpable.

AussieGeoff

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Andrew:

Sacre bleu!

And understood.

Thanks.

Ann

There's probably a biblical verse which covers this.

I know, that short one.
John something something. (11-35 ... Thanks, Google!)

[rgesner]

The May 2014 SAIL Magazine has a 4 page article by the crew about the abandonment of Alpha 42 "Be Good Too", including a sidebar "Battle of the Armchair Admirals" addressing some of the criticisms and conjectures made in forums. Good reading.
- Rusty

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by rgesner

The May 2014 SAIL Magazine has a 4 page article by the crew about the abandonment of Alpha 42 "Be Good Too", including a sidebar "Battle of the Armchair Admirals" addressing some of the criticisms and conjectures made in forums. Good reading.
- Rusty

Yeah, Charlie toned down that sidebar, a bit... I suppose yours truly should be somewhat disappointed at not belng elevated to the status of an Armchair Admiral, after having been singled out as one of the preeminent "Baying Dogs of the Internet"...

:-))

BE GOOD TOO: Answering Critics | Sailfeed

[RunawayC47]

I had a similar situation with an engine not staring during rough weather a few years back on my first off shore trip. The engine would not turn over. It turned out that waves had slowly pushed water in the exhaust hose filling the water separator and backing up into the cylinder with an open exhaust valve. This bound up the engine since you can not compress water.The starter overheated burning it out and creating an electric smell. This may be what happened on Be Good Too.
If the engine does not start right up you could have this problem. Don't keep trying to start it.The answer is when offshore during rough weather when the wind noise drowns out the sound of a cranking engine to send a crew member closer to the engine being start to ensure it is cranking. If it is not cranking you need to remove the exhaust hose and dump the water into the bilge. The remove either the glow plugs or injectors and crank the engine with the fuel shut off. It is messy so cover the openings with a rag. Then reassemble. It will then run but you may have already damaged the connecting rods so you will need to do a compression check.

I have done this repair to get diesels running while hundreds of miles off shore. I increased the rise in the exhaust manifold, added an additional foot to the exhaust loop and installed a ball shutoff valve to prevent water ever backing up in the exhaust again.

Bill

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by RunawayC47

I had a similar situation with an engine not staring during rough weather a few years back on my first off shore trip. The engine would not turn over. It turned out that waves had slowly pushed water in the exhaust hose filling the water separator and backing up into the cylinder with an open exhaust valve. This bound up the engine since you can not compress water.The starter overheated burning it out and creating an electric smell. This may be what happened on Be Good Too.
If the engine does not start right up you could have this problem. Don't keep trying to start it.The answer is when offshore during rough weather when the wind noise drowns out the sound of a cranking engine to send a crew member closer to the engine being start to ensure it is cranking. If it is not cranking you need to remove the exhaust hose and dump the water into the bilge. The remove either the glow plugs or injectors and crank the engine with the fuel shut off. It is messy so cover the openings with a rag. Then reassemble. It will then run but you may have already damaged the connecting rods so you will need to do a compression check.

I have done this repair to get diesels running while hundreds of miles off shore. I increased the rise in the exhaust manifold, added an additional foot to the exhaust loop and installed a ball shutoff valve to prevent water ever backing up in the exhaust again.

Bill

I think it is unlikely that you could hydraulic lock a good engine in this scenario. The exhaust valve is only open on the upstroke therefore on start the water that drained into the cylinder through the open exhaust valve is pushed out before it closes.

If the exhaust valve is leaky then water could drip into the cylinder when closed and stopped on a different part of the cycle. Then on start you could bend a rod if other cylinders fire. If you are lucky the engine will not be able to turn at all in this case.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by RunawayC47

when offshore during rough weather .......remove either the glow plugs or injectors and crank the engine ......it is messy so cover the openings with a rag.........Then reassemble. It will then run but you may have already damaged the connecting rods so you will need to do a compression check....... Bill

Thanks, but if far offshore in rough weather I think I would just carry on sailing. Stripping down engines in rough weather, hmm no thanks.

Pete

[RunawayC47]

I had the motor lock up 3 times and Volvo replaced the engine twice. The certified Volvo mechanic had no idea why water was getting Ito the pistons. Finally Port Engineers in Key Largo fixed the problem. They installed a custom riser extension and found the anti siphon break was in the wrong location.

It definitely can and does happen and you will burn out the starter motor trying to start the engine and smell a burning electrical smell. I believe this is what happened.

Bill

[RunawayC47]

Pete

You need to get the salt water out as soon as possible. It is much easier if you can pull the glow plugs. No messing with diesel fuel.

Luckily I don't get sea sick.

Bill

[Cotemar]

Abandoning "Be Good Too" the builder responds.

by Gregor Tarjan, designer of the Aeroyacht ALPHA 42 catamaran "Be Good Too"

ABANDONING BE GOOD TOO: The Builder Responds | Sailfeed

[boatman61]

He makes some valid points...